looking at this from another angle...

[margerykemp]

Why do men who don't rape not rape women?

There have been lots of threads and debates about rape myths of why rapists rape but what about the flipside?

I mean, the chance of getting caught and put in jail are very slim so there's hardly a deterrent there...

As a starter, because they regard them as human beings of equal value to themselves and other men. They are aware of their own personal boundaries, are sensitive to the boundaries of others and respect those.

Because not all men are actually bastards?

margerykemp, your question is one to think over.

Most people think of rape as a violent attack against another and this could be where the problem lies. There will be some who have raped and aren't even aware they have done. Thinking of sexually naive boy and girl in bed together, heavy petting, she says no to penetration, she doesn't resist, the violation occurs without resistance. Nothing is mentioned about the rape afterwards, he matures not having to face up to making a wrong judgement and perpetrating an act of violence against another. Compounded with a widely held view that females who jump in to bed are asking for it, it's easy for him to put the blame on her.
Male and female both drunk or drugged up, he has sex with her but she's not given consent as she was unable to. Imo, he's had sex without consent which equals rape.

Some males are taught to avoid tricky situations , taught boundaries, how to behave to another during sex, and how to control themselves, or could be passive in nature.

Or perhaps they are just decent human beings, who, despite having a penis, are actually able to control themselves and respect others.

Because, even if they could get away with it, they don't feel it would be an enjoyable activity?

Rape is an act of violence more than it is a sexual act, you may as well ask why most humans (men and women) don't hit their partners, or don't go out on Saturday nights and get into fights, or don't attack strangers on the street.

Because they don't think it would be fun. They don't want to.

Well most men are not rapists the reasons why are probably the same as why are most people not criminals.

I think that's a really interesting question... I'd like to know to what extent the reasons are affected by context; that is to say, to what extent do men not rape in order to adhere to society's norms and values? Or is it the case that a man who is not a rapist will not become a rapist should his circumstances change?

I am thinking specifically of things like Soviet soldiers raping German women during WW2. Were these men rapists to begin with, or were their norms and values distorted and they acted accordingly?

I think in war the situation is a little different because often you hate the enemy and it is easier to do harmful things to people you hate. When your enemy kills your friends and colleagues, destroys your homes, rapes/kill/torture your people and your in a situation of kill or be killed perceptions may be altered. And what was once a woman now becomes a German woman, German being the main factor as she is seen as the enemy regardless of who she is as a person. Probably why most of the worlds greatest atrocities throughout history have occurred during times of war.

Some of the training/indoctrination/conditions soldiers are/were forced to endure is tantamount to torture.

But what I'm saying is, does the altering of norms and values in exactly the way you describe ColdTruth, alter a man's 'ability' (for want of a better word) to become a rapist?

How does that then affect the assertion that some (most) men do not rape due to their intrinsic values if these values are subject to extraneous factors?

Most men don't kill people either, so the war analogy is a bit silly.

We all have the ability to murder or sexually assault (and the only thing stopping women from having the ability to rape is that the definition of rape requires a penis) but generally we don't do these things not because we want to but stop ourselves but because we don't want to.

I think the war analogy is good. People are affected by what is considered acceptable at the the time.

Did anyone see that scene from Mad Men where Joanie is raped by her fiance? He doesn't even realise that what he is doing is rape - he is just taking what he believes he is entitled to. What people think they are entitled to is heavily influenced by the laws and social customs of the time.

I think most men don't rape because most men, like most women, are decent human beans. It's just unfortunate that a small minority manage to terrorize a majority of women by perpetuating the fear of rape.

Well yes, good point about entitlement. Rape is a means of asserting power and control over another person. If you feel entitled to that power and control over someone because they are say, female, then you won't necessarily regard forcing them to have sex to be wrong, because you believe you are entitled to their sexual (and other) services.

I think the rape in war / killing in war scenario represents something else - the "group think" phenomenon, where people will do things when part of a group that they would probably never contemplate if on their own. That would perhaps be part of what is behind gang rapes - an element of male entitlement compounded by being in a large, adrenaline fueled group with no individual feeling the need to take responsibility for their actions and no overt prohibition against raping.

But the problem I have with the "because some men are good/nice" is that it stereotypes rapists as somehow 'different' fundamentally from other men. They aren't necessarily bastards in other aspects of their lives.

'Nice' men rape too.

'Nice' men rape too.

Depends on you definition of nice.

Men who otherwise behave as if they are nice can rape, yes.

'Nice' men don't rape because ipso facto a rapist is not a nice man.

Rapists who you previously believed to be nice, or who act nice in every other way, are still not nice.

I think most people can behave as if they are nice, despite what they may really be thinking and feeling.

Most of us are frightened and sickened by violent crime, and I'd guess that's what stops many men from raping.

That is a good point SGM, but I think it should be expressed like that. Not that rapists are nice people, or that nice people are sometimes rapists, but that you can't tell the difference.

Well, the word "nice" is subjective, depends on your perspective of a person and where your own interests lie. For example, your boss may think your colleague is "nice" because he gets all his work done on time and kisses the boss's behind. You might think your colleague is a jerk because he's always gossiping about other people and gets subordinates to do most of his work, or something like that.

I'd tend to suggest folks don't waste alot of time and brain space on whether or not a person who forces another to have sex against their will is "nice" in any other context or not. It doesn't really add alot to the discussion, iyswim.

Slipping back to the opening posts, can people suggest things they are doing either with their own children or in some other capacity to enable the next generation of men to not become rapists?

"DD1's a teenager so I watch a lot of crap films with her and I critique them."

It would be nice to think that fathers are doing the same with their sons. But I doubt it.