controlling women during pregnancy

[Rollon2012]

I've heard a few comments over the years about the hole teetotal during pregnancy thing is not about healthy babies but used to control women.

I wondered straight away , do feminists share this view?
im on the fence generally , although I went cold turkey smoking wise (threw my fags in the bin on the way out of the surgery after getting results) never smoked since and didn't drink at all.

Or is it an excuse the pg women who dont have the willpower to abstain for drinking for 9 months to make themselves feel better??

just wondering what your views on this, (I appreciate it may be a sensitive subject)

i would think that 'some people' is a tiny minority, and yet seemingly the 'control the pg woman' thing is commonly encountered.

So my question is WHY did you start this thread? What is it that you wanted to hear/find out about? So far, it seems to be that YOU have decided what is right/wrong. I am a feminist but what I did during my pregnancy is in the wrong camp apparently.

I hasten to add, despite reading lots and discussing things with my Midwife, who had no real issue or concern with anything I did.

Because I is a grown up and all.

Rollon that was your decision though. Which you were absolutely entitled to make. It doesn't follow that you then have the right to judge or decide for other women

"Oh dear god for a second there I thought I was on the internet where freedom of speech was allowed."

Inaccurate - Websites are private domain and as such your speech can be curtailed by others easily. MN deletes threads and comments as it sees fit. Even if you wanted to put up a site to whatever, most web site domain service providers have clauses about you can and cannot put on their servers. And, even if that was the issue, in terms of freedom of speech the other side can say what they think of your opinions just as well as you can say/type them.

Personally, I think the whole alcohol issue as form of control of pregnancy is a smoke screen, or at most a drop in the ocean, to other more horrid methods of control used on women when pregnant. Many women are subjected to what is pretty much emotional blackmail during pregnancy in order to get them 'in line'. Many women are lied to about their options or not told about options until too late. The whole language of being allowed to do or not allowed to do this, you will do this is disgusting. Then there are of course the international issues which we are lucky not to have to worry about (women being tied to bed, women being coerced into c-sections so the doctor can tie their tubes without consent and those not coerced having IUDs implanted without their consent or knowledge).

TheRealMBJ - im sorry are you on crack?

where did I say all women having sex should never smoke chain up all girls make them eat organic food make them diet and blindfold them ......bla bla what excuse me?

do you even read? maybe I've forgotten I'm actually Fritzl which a strong anti smoking stance

Have you heard of hyperbole?

Have you heard of hysteria? twisting words? putting down the pipe?

Rollon, you DID post in Feminism! We can make AIBU look positively gentle

As others have said, it's now often expected that women who're TTC must act as though they could be pregnant.

I had comments when pregnant over alcohol, sex, caffeine, prawns, blue cheese, meat, going to smoky places, stress, wearing heels, going out in the evening, "doing too much", lying down too much (may lead to non-optimal position), commuting, driving, lifting my toddler, working til 37 weeks, exercising (both too much and not enough), our birth plan/wishes, how long we waited ( or didn't wait) before ttc after 30, birth or miscarriage, wearing underwired bras, taking a pessary for thrush, taking paracetomol, eating out, eating nuts, not eating enough veg, weight gain (too much / not enough).

Some of it must be about control.

Have also heard some really horrible comments about women who have had miscarriages, premature babies or stillbirth along the lines of "well she did X, Y or Z......." ( unfinished statements but clear woman-blaming).

Actually ! I retract my previous post. The inevitable conclusion if the type of thinking you are putting forward is exactly the type of situation I describe.

If you think it is ok to make decisions on behalf of another person because of the potential harm,it may cause her potential off spring, where does the line lie? What can you then acceptably decide for her and what can you not?

My favourite was the exhortation in antenatal classes to assume the all-fours floor-cleaning position at every opportunity (it was actually suggested that we regularly clean floors) for the sake of the baby's position!

Oh I was "old" and a bit "fat" when I got PG. Plus being rhesus neg. You turn into an object. You must do this, you must not do that. I spent 2 weeks on the anti natal ward which involved a nurse "sneaking up" on me nightly to give me an anti-DVT injection. I was NOT bed bound. She even did it when I had visitors - whipped my top up and stuck a needle in me without asking! Plus constant tests and monitoring.

The minute I HAD the baby, conversely, you couldn't FIND a member of staff. I was supposed to get my painkillers on time. I couldn't reach to get the baby out of her bassinet.....

I was told at an early pg physio/antenatal class that I shouldnt sit on the sofa or in an armchair. I should only sit on a hard chair throughout my pregnancy.

I was also told I should never lie on my back ever during pregnancy as it affected blood supply and 'imagine what that will do to your baby!'

FFS.

I think it's worth thinking back to where this advice/control stems from.

Our culture has patriarchal origins. Women were property and the notion of heredity was vital. Men tried to guarantee using the law that they had ownership of their offspring. The only area where they couldn't exercise complete control was during pregnancy. Men couldn't take the foetus immediately after conception and guarantee that it would develop along the lines they wanted. So they did the next best thing and tried to control every move made by the woman while she incubated their property.

The really scary thing is that despite literature and poems about love, and despite the individual couples who genuinely loved each other, you don't have to go that far back in history to see this played out with no attempt whatsoever to disguise the aim/motive/means.

It is, therefore, completely unsurprising that elements of this persist in the 21st century.

If you think it is ok to make decisions on behalf of another person because of the potential harm,it may cause her potential off spring, where does the line lie?

Clearly binding & gagging teenage girls I bow to your better knowledge

I can't argue with you people , I think I need some crack

Just look at the "lying in" thing they used to do. Windows closed, shutters up, women confined to her room. God forbid the woman should do anything to "damage" the progeny - hopefully male.

you can't really compare victorian cruelty with not wanting a pg to smoke and suffocate her unborn child :S

you are being incredibly rude rollon.

it's impossible to have a conversation with you - you're not taking on board any other perpsectives, or answering any questions. Lots here don't accept it's permissable to make decisions on behalf of pregnant women. And have given reasons and shared anecdotes. You think it IS ok to control pg women, in fact you want to be the one to do it. According to your lights, coffee is ok. How come YOU get to decide on my behalf? But you don't answer questions, just accuse others of being on crack or hysterical or in favour of allowing foetus' to 'suffocate'.

It is no use arguing with her Grumpy she is entirely unable to see the underlying principle of the matter.

acutally i've just remembered another anecdote...

when i was pregnant with DD my MW came out to do my booking in and when i said i didn't want any screening tests (16wk blood tests were offered as standard at that point) she spent nearly 40mins trying to persuade me that i should (i have a cousin with downs, 3 second cousins with downs but it's a BIG family!). when i went to the hospital for my dating scan the MW there noticed that i wasn't having the screening tests done and she spent 30mins with me, and actually persuaded me to have the tests done on the basis that if the spina bifida (?i think?) result came back positive my care would be managed differently and i would deliver in a different hospital so i really should have the tests done for my health and my unborn child's...

when i saw my own MW she made it very clear that the hospital MW was talking rubbish, and that if the baby was so badly affected as to need delivered in a different hospital it would be obvious without ever having had the tests done. she then asked me if i actually wanted the results - since they were there i did get them. if they had showed a "bad" result i would then have been left with choices to make that i didn't want to make, hence my refusal of the tests in the first place.

i still get angry when i think about how i was manipulated!

People were much ruder to me roll on not not agreeing with certain things does not mean I want to control women

I just dont agree with certain things I'm not sure how I can make it clearer than that

I like how certain posters are trying to twist my dislike of pg women smoking with locking them in rooms, tying teenage girls up , making women have several tests the list goes on ...