Have ordered Wifework....slightly concerned about the after effects

[TheProvincialLady]

I hadn't encountered Wifework before lurking on the feminist boards, but it sounds so interesting that I have just ordered it from Amazon and I'm really looking forward to reading it. But at the same time a little concerned about what I will actually DO with the enhanced knowledge that I am a Wife.

I willingly gave up work when I had the DC. We both discussed this and it was what I had always thought would be the best thing for the children. 5 years later, we have two children and I work a few hours a week (and really enjoy it). But I am now basically responsible for all the housework, all of the time. And getting the children ready. My husband does help, but he is not responsible and I'm not sure how this happened. It affects my choice of job but not his, the hours I work but not his, etc. Before children I still did more housework - partly because our standards are somewhat different - but also because he was raised to do nothing in the way of housework and has an underlying belief that it gets done anyway.

Anyway, a slight resentment of all this has been bubbling under the surface for some years now I suppose, and now it is all about to come to a head when I read Wifework. As the children get older I want to work more hours outside the home and so DH and I will be more equal in that respect, and I can foresee a battle over the housework and the children. So how can I approach this in a constructive way?

I posted this on the feminist board because I value your opinions and would be interested in any theoretical stuff as well as practical advice. Thanks.

• sorry, should have said, a life she would find sad/non-ideal. Not an intrinsically sad life (which I guess is the point).

Eh?
Not with you.

The moral therefore is don't get mad at 'the patriarchy' (whatever that is)_. Get mad at yourelf/selves for making such stupid choices and being victims.

I've read Wifework. I got it as soon as it came out 10 years ago.

Why is that the moral? I haven't made a stupid choice and most certainly don't see myself as a victim- you may feel the choice is stupid, but my point is, why be bitter about it? If it bothers you so much, for your sake or for the sake of others on this thread, be aware that choices are not set in stone. For me, learning that the patriarchy helped me realize how much my choices and my DH's choices are socially conditioned, so I don't just want to give up and think life will never be great and it's all my fault.

Actually, I think one of the most unrecognised parts for many of being the SAH parent, is that the WOH parent just would not be able to combine work and family with such ease if it weren't for someone else taking on the bulk of the childcare and/or domestic work. Not would they be able to concentrate on their career in such depth if someone else weren't doing almost all of the family thinking for them.

The world would look very different if women had wives.

Btw, I don't see the sense in being angry with yourself for being a victim. That's silly. You're the victim of something if you are a victim. You can't impose victimhood on yourself. So, the best thing to do is work out why you think you're struggling or unhappy, and tackle that. Don't get into a cycle of self-blaming and anger at yourself. It's pointless (though it is very much, I think, what society would like us to do).

Aye - some women do have wives.

Nor, would they......

All choices are socially conditioned!

Sorry, yes they do.

I meant to put "wives", as in the the traditional. Have just started reading a fascinating book by Margaret Foster called "Good Wives?" and am steeped in social expectations of such.

mondog - exactly my point.

aye - I thought I must be missing something, seemed odd from you! I love that book - it's fascinating. Her books are really good I think. Have you read her one about her mum and grandmother and her? I think it's called Hidden Lives? Very interesting too.

You don't sound like you put much value on looking after children Moondog. And it's odd that you choose to compare it to managerial roles. For starters, why not compare it to paid childcare. What would be the financial cost to the family of putting the children in full time nursery care? That's the accepted financial value of what the parent is doing. Then add on value of the cleaning, cooking, ironing etc. That's the basic financial value of what the parent is doing. Then add on the fact that their prescence at home means that the other parent never has to leave early or take time off to deal with sick children.

You seem to be coming assuming that this situation involves a high earning man partner with a managerial level role and a low earning woman who is staying at home. Yes, there are salary gaps, but many of those happen as a result of the expectation that women will be the ones putting their career to one side. Working part time, taking time off to look after sick children and trying to work hours that fit aroung school and childcare drop offs and pick ups are factors that help cause that salary gap.

As for me being holier-than-thou I am very sorry you feel that way. Do you feel you inadequate? Are you disappointed in yourself or your life? I'm very happy with mine thank you, though it's sweet of you to worry I work at home, and out of the home and I stay at home. My DH earns a little more, but he has to work full time to do it.

Not yet, LRD. I finally took the plunge and went to the library to stock up on The Equality Illusion, Sexual Politics, The Forster one, another one by her called Significant Sisters and one about women of the British Empire, Think those will keep me quiet for a bit?

Yep, I'd say it will! I've not read Significant Sisters but it's on my Amazon wishlist. Nor have I read the others ... ah well, slowly slowly I'll get there.

Looking after my children and being there for them is the most important thing in the world to me and I make sure I do as much of it as I can.
I also love domestic work.I like cooking and ironing and sewing and cleaning. I take great pride in having a nice home.

I don't subscribe to the view that 'the state' should be paying us to look after our own families.

I don't think that people should view their jobs as something that has to fit around their personal lives.

I have a very lovely husband who is a domestic God. That's why I married him.

He occasionally failed to understand why I had a face like a smacked arse when he came in from a 12 hour day in an isolated part of the foreign country we lived in where I looked after two very small children with no company.

I in turn occasionally failed to understand the huge pressure he was under at work.

We talked about it and came to an arrangement.
Isn't that what one does in a marriage?

It is, but it's hrder if you enter the conversation with the notion, perhaps subconscious, that House Work is intrinsically of lesser value than outside work.

"I also love domestic work.I like cooking and ironing and sewing and cleaning. I take great pride in having a nice home."

That's great for you moondog that you chose to do what you loved but the problem is that not everyone feels the same. For some people all those things you liked so much is not for them, yet for a variety of the social, economic and biological reasons outlined above they find themselves in a position doing all those things.

Feminists simply question why responsibility for those things still falls to the woman and why in an age when there are no real impediments to men staying at home and women going out to work, why does the sexual division of labour remain so unchanged?

Feminists simply question why responsibility for those things still falls to the woman and why in an age when there are no real impediments to men staying at home and women going out to work, why does the sexual division of labour remain so unchanged?

I think breastfeeding is a part of it. Though I may be wrong there as women get lots of maternity leave

Some of it could boil down to "women can't have it all" like a high-flying career and be a parent, it's either one or the other

moondog - that's lovely, and you are focussing hugely on you, not just your children. Which is great IMO. But why shouldn't other people who have different needs and likes do differently from you and enjoy it? I think the problem is, it can sometimes feel as if anyone who doesn't fit the model of wife/mother who wants to stay home and has a DH with a good income, is somehow less good. It can feel as if people who're like you get to do what they enjoy, and get praised because it's thought to be good for the children. But people who don't enjoy those things aren't granted that privilege of doing what they enjoy, because it's thought to be bad for teh children. And, TBH, I really doubt it is that simple.

Well - I am a few chapters in and it is certainly very interesting reading. The point she has made so far is that if you think of things from an evolutionary perspective, women are at an advantage BECAUSE they give birth, and they know for sure that the genes they are passing on are theirs. Men can never be 100% sure. And that when you consider that it times gone by, a woman's adult life would have been a continuous process of pregancy, birth and breastfeediing, and man was therefore NEEDED to provide for her and her children. So the patriarchy evolved as some kind of compromise agreement - men can't have the babies and ensure it is their genes that get passed on, so they needed some kind of sweetener to make them stay and do their bit.....

Sounds like my sort of book, Portofino

LeninGrad - yes, I lived in a matriarchal community for a while. There was a thread a while back about them wasn't there? I didn't get time to read it while it was active

@ Leningrad. And at your Fantasy Football score!!!!

I also liked the very start of the book, where she pointed out that in MANY languages, the word for woman and for wife is the same....