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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Can you be a feminist housewife?

661 replies

wigglybeezer · 30/08/2011 14:00

Can you be a feminist if you don't have a career but your DH does, especially if this situation has been going on for a long time (13 years in my case)?

I don't feel downtrodden by the way, merely a bit bored and lacking in choice ATM. I earn a small amount of money, so don't have to ask DH for everything but I'm wondering if my Granny (who was a hospital consultant) was a better feminist than me. I just found a photo of her and her pals at medical school where she has noted on the back that there were 18 female medical students out of 180!

OP posts:
Justfeckinggoogleit · 03/09/2011 12:24

I wondered that SSD.

DH works 80 hour weeks.
I have no kids at home 9-3.
Now, who do you reckon gets most leisure time? Hmm

ssd · 03/09/2011 12:34

Mali, I don't really want to work either but I don't have your choices

SecretSquirrell · 03/09/2011 12:37

I worked in a factory for a few months as a student doing what SGB would, no doubt, call shitwork.
The men and women we worked with didn't consider it shit at all. They had comradery, set hours, set wages, no stress, Radio One's Our Tune every afternoon and they could do overtime for xmas or when they needed .
One person's meat is another's poison.

ssd · 03/09/2011 12:45

secretsquirrell, was that a few years ago?

I can imagine the same factory is now either shut down, or the staff have been cut and are now stressed to the hilt doing 2 peoples jobs rolled into one and the overtime is at a minimum

I know I sound bitter, I work doing shitwork that women turn their noses up at, only because they have a well paid dh and can turn their noses up

solidgoldbrass · 03/09/2011 13:27

There are plenty of threads on here from women whose partners consider that, because they earn the money and have the penis in the house, they are entitled to offload all the shitwork onto the woman and take all the time they want to pursue their own hobbies and social lives. I am not saying that every SAHM gets treated like this, but it is a very common problem.

SecretSquirrell · 03/09/2011 13:38

You get what you settle for, SGB.
Don't like it, don't settle for it. Simple.

SSD, the only person turning her nose up at shitwork appears to be SGB.

ssd · 03/09/2011 13:39

I don't agree and as a mum of boys I object to you belittling men so much, of course some men are sexist pigs, but some women love playing the little helpless woman too, IME these types of people are in the minority in life, I don't believe its a common problem at all

ssd · 03/09/2011 13:41

that was to SGB, BTW

Original poster
wigglybeezer · 03/09/2011 15:50

I think some women choose fairly unchallenging jobs (after they have children) on purpose though, because the demands of anticipating every need and problem their children might have (my DS2 has special needs), all the organizing and worrying that goes with family life uses up your reserves of mental energy. A nice non-demanding job, preferably with adults and minimal responsibility can become appealling even if the pay is crap. Being a librarian or working in a craft shop are becoming appealling to me because I sure as hell can't go back to being a serious sculptor, it requires more than the odd free hour or two here or there (or it does for me anyway)to come up with ideas and execute them successfully.
DH is able to compartmentalise his life, i suspect because he has never looked after the kids full-time and have then take over his brain!

I suspect, from the examples in my family, my three boys think women are brainier than men (or at least know more stuff) but that men earn more money. Probably about right, as long as they don't therefore think men are more important, must talk to them about it.

OP posts:
NormanTebbit · 03/09/2011 17:18

I also think many jobs which are unchallenging offer part time hours which fit around the children. I will work weekends and evenings and be able to look after children during the week.

And yy where I grew up most people had 'jobs' not careers and just wanted a living wage. Work did not define them, friends and family did.

Supersunnyday · 03/09/2011 17:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scottishmummy · 03/09/2011 19:10

work doesnt define me but neither does motherhood
both work and being a parent are enormously important to me

and sgb your description of relationship, (you are? or were in?) in which the dominant male is not puling his weight and generally taking the piss has clearly affected and skewed the responses and attitudinal beliefs you have towards men and women

you see,that not everyone experience.and i dont recognise your description of men.and actually i dont recognise your description of down trodden female partner putting up with shitwork

do you do shitwork or have you secured a worthy well paid role

solidgoldbrass · 04/09/2011 02:24

I avoid getting stuck with an unfair amount of shitwork by not engaging in heteromonogamy. Do most of you not read the rest of the board? Or does it whistle through your heads without stopping that thread after thread talks of men who insist that they get each and every weekend to pursue their hobbies, who expect their pregnant-and-looking-after-toddler wives to keep the house display-standard clean and suck cock, who tell their wives 'that's your job' when a sick chiild has woken up for the third time in a night and it's saturday so the man doesn't ahve to go to work tomorrow...

TheRealMBJ · 04/09/2011 06:28

No, SGB I don't think it is that they don't read the board, I think that because they have not experienced this (or do not realise that they are) they conclude it is not their problem. And do not realise that this is not about their own circumstances only.

I've given up on this thread.

ssd · 04/09/2011 08:32

SGB I've been reading the boards forever, why should I particularly notice you?
Do you notice me?
No of course not.

Don't really get why you seem to enjoy not "engaging in heteromonogamy", if you have such a low opinion of men why shag so many of them, you seem to think they are beneath you? To me you come across as a bit pompous.

Himalaya · 04/09/2011 08:53

Yes are women in the situation that SGB describes - unhappy, put upon and with a partner acting unreasonably. I think all would agree that that is not a good situation.

But i think the question people are thinking about here is about the many women who are housewives and say they are basically happy with this or at least think it is the best option in the circumstances (which was the OPs situation)

The harder question is whether THAT is a problem. If so what is causing it, and what should be done?

I think it is a problem - the pattern that women in general still take more responsibility for childcare (and with it housecare) than men (whether in a partnership or as a SP) and therefore they take more of a hit to their careers and positions in public life.

Is it that women will always make different choices in balancing caring for their children and getting ahead professionally, financially and socially than men? In which case the priority is subsidised childcare, flexible work, child support, recognising the value of raising a family etc.. I.e. To make the world better for the mother-and-child- unit.

Or can we imagine a world in which men and women end up with a more equal share of childcare responsibility and external roles outside the family? In which case we need to change culture, expectations, careers advice, what we tell our children etc...

Truckrelented · 04/09/2011 08:54

I don't think people should base their views on men by reading posts on Mumsnet. MN is a glimpse of certain posters lives, not a reflection of real life.

If I based my views of women from reading MN I could think the following;

There are big debates about sahm and wohm and bottle or breast.
A lot of women shop at Boden.
A lot of families have nannies.
Feminists and MRAs are waging a war against each other.

In RL I've never experienced any of the above.

StewieGriffinsMom · 04/09/2011 09:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Truckrelented · 04/09/2011 09:56

In real-life you've seen feminists and MRAs waging a war?

Who won?

PrideOfChanur · 04/09/2011 10:35

"waging" means it is still going on,Truckrelented.
Feminism will win, because in my admittedly rose coloured world,justice will win out eventually.
Smile

StewieGriffinsMom · 04/09/2011 10:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SecretSquirrell · 04/09/2011 10:42

SGB.

Some women allow themselves to be put upon by some men.

Most women do not and live perfectly happy, perfectly equal lives in heteromonogamy. My marriage, like that of most people I know, is mutually respectful and perfectly equal. It's a shame you aren't able to negotiate such a relationship for yourself. Most feminists are.

Himalaya · 04/09/2011 11:24

Secretsquirrel - I agree, many people live in happy mutually respectful marriages/partnerships (me too...) - but still in the majority of them the arrangement they end up in is one of dad earns more/mum has more responsibility for kids and home (although that's not currently the case for me)

The thing I am struggling with is whether it is 'ok' if the playground is full of women, because it's their choice, or not ok,
because this domestic arrangement is what underpins a lot of
inequality (the boardroom is full of men...)

Can we tall about that instead of taking potshots at each other's personal lives?

SecretSquirrell · 04/09/2011 11:45

No, I see that. I don't know the answer but to me, if you are both happy with your set up, it's okay.
If it works better to have one at home, one at work, that's okay. What suits one couple won;t suit another. I know we would both be miserable if we split everything 50:50 so we have a very traditional set of roles which we both like.

scottishmummy · 04/09/2011 12:59

if any woman finds herself sucking cock and doing shitwork in a dysfunctional relationship-she needs to tale a good hard look at herself.and question why is she so supplicant,why does does she repeat pattern by having relationships with cavemen,and what is she going to do about it

because frankly if your experience of adult relationships is shitwork,sucking cock and feeling angry you need to get a fucking grip and dont assume other women replicate your behaviours or experience

we dont all live with caveman or do shitwork, nor does anyone have to - that is the point