You don't have to be feminist to post here, but it helps...

[MrsReasonable]

I've noticed that whenever a 'non-feminist' view is brought up, there are occasionally some posts along the lines of 'this is a feminist board, why come here if you aren't...', etc.

Genuine question - is this a feminist board, or a board about feminism? Obviously the majority of posters are feminist, but I'm not sure whether that is because feminists (surprise surprise) like discussing feminism, or because it is seen as a feminist 'safe haven'?

O be honest though SM often your posts do not read as a discussion. You do not seem to want to engage in a conversation, rather you blurt out your opinion, often without much reference to what has been said before.

and

Should have read 'To be honest'

claig I'm flattered that you referred to me as 'even TheReal' but I am still a very 'green' feminist and I think a recognition of my lack of knowledge is what forms the basis of my trepidation.

i dont need to get into a she said/i said about posts.its a bit irrelevant. i think the op premise has been a fascinating one.well worth exploring. evidently, not everyone will agree with every post.thats to be expected. online banter always has subjective element. and if to you it reads as online blabber,well thats fair enough

scottishmummy, may I ask: when it comes to someone reporting a rape, which view do you hold? Is it: A) I don't know, I wasn't there. She could be lying... or B) Well, actually, I believe the victim as she's least likely to be lying...

TheRealMBJ, I think that is unfair. It is a matter of opinion. scottishmummy has spent a lot of time contributing to this thread and did receive some personal abuse about how rude she is across MN etc. She wasn't rude to any one personally here, so I think that was uncalled for.

I am against any poster being singled out and rude things said about them unless they have been blatantly rude to others. It was wrong that dittany was attacked for her posting style, and it is wrong that scottishmummy is attacked for her posting style.

judicary,police,procurator fiscal they make that call.they would need to weigh up available evidence,corroboration,seek information and present it. the system is flawed and subjective.mistakes get made.

one needs to be aware the system is flawed,underfunded,and groaning under burden of cases and too few staff

'I am still a very 'green' feminist and I think a recognition of my lack of knowledge is what forms the basis of my trepidation.'

TheRealMBJ, I think that is true of many posters on MN and that is why many of them have the same trepidation to post here, some of which ends up with them describing regulars as "meanies".

There is theory that lots of us do not understand, but there are other issues that every poster on MN would have an opinion about, and they shouldn't feel trepidation to post on those issues for fear of being unknowledgeable and too green. Because if that happens, then they will avoid the feminist section and some will end up thinking it is not for them.

claig, who do you imagine posts on feminism and thinks they know everything and feels no trepidation? Who are these regulars who never feel unknowlegeable?

But they don't make that call.

80 - 90% of cases go unreported.

Of the 10% reported, 6.7% see a conviction.

Are you willing to believe that 93.3% of women reporting a rape are lying? Because that doesn't match up with everything else we know about rape.

When I was first sexually assaulted, aged 19, I told two people. The guy I was dating at the time, and a close friend. No one (IRL) has ever found out. Again, the people on MN and my DBF are the only people who know my ex raped me. I was unaware it was rape at the time, and even now I feel I can't say it was to anyone IRL because I won't be believed. We need to send the messages to victims that they will be believed. Which is why the "but some women lie" comments get greeted so badly.

Fair enough claig. Point taken wrt SM

Sorry sm

'claig, who do you imagine posts on feminism and thinks they know everything and feels no trepidation?'

That's right, even regulars feel trepidation. Just imagine what newbies feel like.
It is a shame, because it is like a Labour party meeting where members are too scared to voice their opinion about some of Gordon Brown's policies.

I can imagine what the newbies fell like. Most of us felt the same quite recently.

If I'm typical at all, what I would have got from a thread like this, as a newbie, was that there were posters like ScottishMummy and Custardo and Dittany and SaF, all of whom were presumably feminists and all of whom were angry with each other. I'd know nothing whatsoever about feminism from the thread. It's totally pointless to pretend this thread has anything in it for newbies.

I think what would be better to do for newbies would be to be friendly when they post, and personally I'd like to see more topics go onto Chat as well, because it was interesting.

We're going round in circles again claig. What should we do? Flag some topics with 'advanced feminists only' or just let everyone wade in and then there is a danger some people post on a subject a lot of people are more versed in than they are?

I think the latter is better - yeah sometimes it hurts (the 'omg some disabled people parked in my pfb space' rant in aibu is a point in question) but on the whole, it might make people actually THINK before they post. Curiosity is welcome, wilful ignorance, not so much.

This thread is already at 840 posts. It is a topic that keeps coming up and that won't go away. I think newbies will be lurking and are interested in it, because some feel trepidation to post their views.

I think it has ended up being a very useful discussion. It has not been personalised because no one individual is running the board. All views have been valid and have had an element of truth to them. It has drawn in views from differing perspectives. It has reminded us that we should treat posters with respect and give them the benefit of the doubt.

There are obvious trolls and they are very effectively dealt with and ridiculed, and that is also instructive to lurkers, so even the trolls do not succeed in their goal. But there are lots of posters who have differing views who are not trolls. We should be big enough to discuss these views in the big tent of feminism. I agree with scottishmummy that we shouldn't proscribe certain views. If they don't stand the test of logic and fairness, then they will easily be defeated and that is also instructive to lurkers and posters.

ive found this v interesting and thought provoking
i like reading other people pov
and its the frisson and fact we dont all agree makes it so interesting

How much does it hurt to answer an unthinkingly-unfeminist post with "That's a very common view, but did you know this, that and the other?"

Like Frothy just did at 20:09, in fact.

Fuck me, is that the time???!!! Another day lost to MN ...

I agree with your choice. I agree with challenging posters' views, but I don't like it when it gets personal and people are attacked for their posting style or labels are assigned to them because of other posters' interpretations of their views. We all know that interpretations can sometimes be wrong, so we should exercise care before shooting the messenger.

I'm afraid I don't find it interesting.

I find it like reading people telling me that radical feminists are all the same, are all interested in stopping debate, and are all offputting to newbies. I must not say that this upsets me, or I will be told this is 'playing the victim' and is Not Allowed, for only non-feminists are permitted to have feelings.

Interesting is not how I would describe it.

Some more observations - why the fuck shouldn't the academic and radical feminists who use this board have the occasional discussion about heavy-duty feminist theory, that you do need to have read a few books to understand? If posters on the (for instance) telly addicts boards want to have a long in depth discussion about, oh, whatever, Twin Peaks or something, should they have to put up with having the thread constantly derailed by idiots going waah, bwaaah, I've never heard of this programme, I want to talk about Eastenders.
I mean, if I want to start a thread on here going 'Sheila Jeffries is wrong and I despise her' I would expect other feminists to disagree with me and discuss the subject, but I would also expect other board users who look at the thread not to fill it up repeatedly with posts going 'Who is Sheila Jeffries?' and cry and whine and complain to MNHQ when told to fuck off and Google or at least read the other 20 responses given to the first 20 who asked the same fucking question.
Some of the pointless and infuriating whinyarsing in this thread seems to be suggesting that not just every board on MN should be dumbed down for the brain donors, but that every single thread should have to entertain the brain donors over and over again, so that no lazy, bigoted, poorly-informed, smug fuckwit should ever have to have his/her thinking challenged.

I'm with startAfire. I've found it a bit tedious. I'm interested in discussing feminism, not point-scoring on semantics. BUT I hope some people will have had their interest piqued and come and chat further.