You don't have to be feminist to post here, but it helps...

[MrsReasonable]

I've noticed that whenever a 'non-feminist' view is brought up, there are occasionally some posts along the lines of 'this is a feminist board, why come here if you aren't...', etc.

Genuine question - is this a feminist board, or a board about feminism? Obviously the majority of posters are feminist, but I'm not sure whether that is because feminists (surprise surprise) like discussing feminism, or because it is seen as a feminist 'safe haven'?

I agreed too BoF. I was about to say that I was a feminist and a socialist and that I don't see quite how you can be one without the other and then I thought that might take the conversation off into a whole new tangent where I didn't have the brainpower to back that assertion up (plus I'm tired and hungover )

Is it worthwhile considering some kind of statement at the head of each thread, similar to the AIBU one's. Except couched in a more positive manner. Approx 250 posts later and a resoultion to MrsR's OP isn't much nearer, othe than "to have manners!".
Something based on HerB's post at 20.54 perhaps. I am an 'in and out' poster often but this disagreement has been a consistent one when I do dip in. ( I lurk massively).
It may seem a patronising step, and poss. ineffective, but it would give an indication as to what is the focus of the threads, and how the thrust of the section is potentially at odds with mainstream opinion.

So that's a 'no' then.

Pan, we've discussed that idea before. Just so you don't feel ignored

No, I think it'd be good. It doesn't seem to stop people posting cap in AIBU but does make it a bit clearer we're meant to play nice.

ah! ok, ta.

it's would fair to sya that if posters wanted to post that sort of stuff they can go over to Chat or AIBU for instance rather than taking up time/space in section specifying feminism/WR. And maybe MN could be a more proactive in moving such threads over there.

But people who don't say those things but are more open with thoughts and ideas, whose ideas and thoughts they might want to expand or change should also be welcome

You may have asked for this space Dittany but you don't own it nor is it your place to say who may or may not post here

There are many many women who would like discussion, they may not be radical feminists but the majority feel they are feminists. Many of the non feminists (not anti) are for women and not against them.

This space and discussions in it are not a closed group - if you wanted a closed group... go make one a la mouldies and have it invite only

I find the whole 'prove your feminist' credentials/ pick your label thing a bit boring. I'd much rather discuss the issues in hand then police or be policed about who's feminist enough.

Thing is any thread I see in here, I see as one I will discuss from a feminist perspective. Elsewhere, I will be more hesitant. I've not seen people start a thread here that they don't want to be from a feminist viewpoint, more that people feel the need to come and criticise the fact that is is being discussed from a feminist viewpoint, so then it wouldn't be fair to move a thread that the OP hadn't intended to be derailed.

xposts galore. That was to Pan

no it isn't a panacea Alice, is it?

Also, closed groups become just that - not energised at all, and lots of people miss out. Thread-shifting would be a real nuiscance and defeating possibly.

Well I don't think some anti-feminists are trolling though.

Some women aren't aware of the fact that what they are saying can be defined as anti-feminist.Some really are genuine when they say: "I am a feminist, but i think you're all being unrealistic and stupid to say that it makes no difference what women wear if they get raped - of course it does! Men are far more likely to rape a woman in a short skirt than one in a burkah"

Sadly that sort of attitude isn't always deliberate trolling, it is the result of a complete lack of awareness and information about the subject being discussed. So in that situation I would be very uncomfortable if someone was accused of trolling on the basis of making a post like that. There are millions of women out there who genuinely think of themselves as sympathetic to feminism, who have internalised views like that and see them as common sense and are absolutely astounded and outraged to have those views challenged.

I don't mean they shouldn't be challenged - of course they should and must - but we shouldn't automtically assume that they're here on a wind up.

HereB + Lenin - Good points. Let's face it, lots of posters on this section weren't feminists until reading this section. Far too many women not only refuse to identify as feminists, but don't see there is any inequality there at all.

Not a facetious emoticon there, I'm always stunned at how people can ignore the inequality in our society.

Dittany - I think it's because this section has grown beyond being the soapbox of a few voices and is now more diverse then that.

Yes I do agree with the point that Dittany is making, that a lot of this outrage against the feminist section, isn't the way we post or the way we treat non-regulars, it is the very fact that this section is here and that we carry on discussing.

The petulance in the face of this section sometimes is startling.

herebebollox - that is exactly my point.

Not all people who are accused of being MRA, antifeminist etc actually are

Yes, there are some true trolls, they are all over mumsnet as whole, not just in this section

But people are accused of trolling when they aren't

Dittany, it's not that people can't stand that feminism says things differently, some people will change their minds, some won't - it still doesn't make them anti feminist. It might mean they are anti some parts of feminism but not the whole idea.

I think that is where posters are having difficulty - two examples of very different thinking were in the palin thread and the romeo and juliet law. Many posters were feminists but not radical feminists, therefore thoughts collided. Doesn't mean that all the non radfems were wrong, it means they are different kind of feminist

The vast majority of posters who post here are for women

that was response to 22.13 and 22.14