Is this a compromise too far? I'd like a feminist viewpoint on this.

[UndercoverFeminist]

OK, I've set up a new account for this, so if you work out who I am, please don't give my regular name.

dh & I have been having major troubles - not many big arguments, but we are now pretty much at an impasse. we are still good friends & get a lot of emotional support from each other, but there is no 'wow' factor, or wish for one, or anything on either side.

we would also like more freedom/flexibility than a traditional marriage allows for.

however, if we split up & live separately, as well as all the emotional fall out (and bot our families will see this as a worse-than-death scenario, and never get over it), there are a huge number of practical difficulties.

basically, we would go from being financially comfortable, happily co-parenting, able to help out etc etc, to having barely enough money to support two houses, no family support & single parents, no companionship etc.

the house we live in is big enough that we have separate rooms, and dh works from home in an office, we kind of live amicable, but fairly separate lives, with dd happy.

HOWEVER - dh just assumes I will do most/all 'wifework'. It has been one of our big issues & one I don't see being resolved. IF we split up, he would have to pay spousal and child support. So if we acknowledge that we are 'over' but continue to co-exist in the same house, I would benefit from his higher salary, and having a back-up parent on hand, but be stuck with being a 'housewife', plus having work.

but then I would be in that position anyway if we split up, and with significantly less money & support.

we live thousands of miles from family, so we could be fairly open about our situation here, without the trauma of telling parents that we're getting divorced.

I have to log off for a while, but would love to know how you lot think this could work out. am i being a complete idiot to think about a 'house share' rather than separating completely?

[solidgoldbrass]

Reject, it's blatantly obvious why women reject you. You don't like women and you are a complete knob. Now fuck off to the Losers Bar with all the other inadequate woman-hating needledicks.

[HereBeBolloX]

It's really interesting, isn't it, that a man thinks that doing all the housework and childcare and cleaning up all the shit and enabling the other partner to work and earn their living, is "doing nothing"

No wonder he's a reject.

You got daughters reject? Or is just sons that you're damaging by your bitter and twisted attitude?

[UndercoverFeminist]

reject - you missed the several posts where I explained that this is a temp. position for 6 months to a year, and that it is him saying the marriage is over, but then refusing to move on to however we'll next work out in our lives.

Actually, this has got me doing some Maths. If I moved out, and left H doing all the things I do, or having to pay for them, then it would cost him approx. 20k gbp, per annum and I earn approx. 25K gbp per annum. This assumes that H would pick up a lot of the day-to-day things like cooking dinner, going to buy food, taking dd to activites etc. If he didn't then obviously he would have to pya out more than that.

I don't mind discussing the 'theories' of the value of work v money as contributions, but if you have other issues, reject, perhaps a different thread would be more worthwhile for you? I am a regular poster who started this thread up to help me with a particular problem, it gets 'messy' if we start bring in too many different issues.

[UndercoverFeminist]

If i just accept that i will be doing the vast majority of the housework, childcare etc, then it will be liveable with. if i dig my heels in & refuse to do that, it won't be. that's why i'm wondering if it's a step too far.

my main job starts back on Weds this week & I am seriously hoping that I will be able to start getting some more hours within a few months.

My main job is part time but still 70% of a ft job, and I have my seasonal job going for the next few weeks, so will be doing 2 jobs for a while. H does work vv long hours - but he always has in every job, and doesn't see how this could be his choice, rather than cos every single job demands it. apparently, i just don't know what I'm talking about when i try to discuss this with him. so he commits himself 100% to his job.

He wants to be the big executive type, with the perfect house & wife. Which I could understand if it made him happy (ironically, he's just 'downsized' massively for a lower stress job, and is working longer hours!), and I would do the whole executive wife thing, BUT he also expects me to work ft so that he doesn't work himself into an early grave while I sit at home having fun all day. That was his exact response after the gp had advised me to cut back on work cos I had 3 years of chronic ill health after dd was born.

so, things have to change, and I just have to get my shit together. I think I'll see if I can go back to the solicitor & get some up to date figures from her, as our jobs situations have changed over the last few months. Still, Id prefer to do this without relying on payments from him. He says he will still support us, but then says he won't have enough to live on if he does. I'd like to be able to survive worst case scenario. It is possible to get child support deducted from his salary & paid to me but that can take months, and he can appeal against the amount & have it vastly reduced, so I don't want to be counting on that money for basic bills, I NEED to be able to cover those myself.

[notlettingthefearshow]

I think the situation could work in the short term - I do know couples who have managed to live together for quite a while after splitting up, for financial reasons. I guess this must happen more and more with falling house prices and the recession. It's not easy but it can be done. I don't blame you for being reluctant to make major changes if your work is fluctuating - it is hard to manage with a fluctuating income as it is.

But you can't keep on doing everything for him. In theory it could have been OK until now, and I have no problem if women choose to do this, but now you owe it to yourself to build your career and prepare yourself for being independent, even if it takes a while until you actually separate. Likewise, he needs a reality check on life without a wife to do everything for him. If you are working more, can you afford more help with housework etc? I'm guessing in the country you are, it is affordable.

I haven't read all the posts, but is it not financially feasible for him to rent a 1-bed flat somewhere nearby, or flat share with a friend? I really don't think it should be your concern whether or not he is eating properly. I don't think you will ever be able to see him as a difficult flatmate, to be honest, as you've got too much history.

Good for you getting on with building your career. It's hard to be the follower, but sometimes necessary for the good of the family. Sounds like you're doing really well

[UndercoverFeminist]

Thanks for that. The problem seems to be that now he's had his strop and gone to the spare room he's happy for life to continue. I'm not.

So we need to work something out.

He will be away for a week in sep and shall go through ALL the financesand make a spreadsheet of exactly what we have then go back to the solicitor. After which I shall start seriously doing a monthly budget to work out exactly what I can afford

[UndercoverFeminist]

We actually have savings and I trust him enough that I don't need to hide money. He is really sending out mixed signals, having said how unhappy he is, he is now talking about putting some of the savings into paying off the mortgage. That would tie the money up and make it harder to split.
Of course, he only mentions it at a time when it's hard to talk properly, like in the car with dd there.

I have enough money to set up home, but not enough for each month, there's a very short time limit on how long I could use savings to support myself, so I want to work that out.

My new plan: don't tell him, but keep plodding along. Go to therapy for me and couples for us, get the money analyzed down to the last penny, start looking for a house, and be as distant from him as possible.

[UndercoverFeminist]

So having been noticeably irritated by me throughout the weekend, he is now being perfectly affable and pleasant

[snowmama]

Just a quick delurk, after reading the thread through. I actually think it will be extremely.difficult to for you to do the the co-living for any length of time, going by what you have said about your family and the way your husband treats you...these sort of situations have a tendency to rumble on for years with no real 'game changing' moment, and can end up being far mote stressful than the technically harder option of leaving and managing on less money.

I would encourage you to pull together a relatively aggressive exit plan, covering work, accomodation,family decisions and start working to it with the help of a solicitor.

There is also a thread in the Relationships board about emotionally abusive relationships, I would have a look at it, as you may find it useful.

[UndercoverFeminist]

Yes, I am aware of that and have been doing some reading over the last 6 months.
What I have always thought though is that a lot of behavior could be seen as abusive or normal. Eg if accuses of being controlling then I expect most people would get angry, we all have different moods, there have been times myself when I've tried to exert pressure to get what I want. I think a lot of these situations come and go. Of course, having said he is n't sure about marriage any more, gives him the upper hand, I am awRe of that.

Anyway, I have decided to push for more counseling and will tell him that it's time to shit or get off the pot. I think it's best to have that discussion with someone else there. I am also going to get finances resolved and get a solicitor to give me a suggested agreement. I am sure it will be 'negotiated' but it gives me a little more certainty.

[snowmama]

Good luck, the thread I talked about, incidentally was not to tell you anything you didn't know, there are some wonderful women on it can give some very useful advice and support.

[UndercoverFeminist]

Thanks- I am doing a lot of lurking under my usual name. This name is being kept both discreet & discrete!

[UndercoverFeminist]

So, I am still struggling to get my head round what the difference is between someone who's just unhappy and grumpy, and someone who is actually abusive.
I know this is typical, but at what point do you draw the line?

Here's a conversation from earlier, and I shall just use A and B so that hopefully it will just be the words that get looked at

A: X emailed me back and wants to set up a time for a business call.
B: that's good.
A: so?
B: so er what?
A: (slightly annoyed) when should I arrange it for?
B: whenever you're free.
A: yes but when is that?
B: well, whenever you're free, not working or have a meeting
A: (more annoyed) that's obvious, what else is going on
B: at the weekend ...
A: not then, in the next few days
B: well you know that I'm out tonight and tomorrow.
A: yes, thank you, why didn't you just say that? I'll set up the call for one day or Thurs eve
B: even if I'm out you can take a phone call. The worst that will happen will be dd interrupting you and that's normal family ...
A: well, of course, but it breaks my flow, I won't be able to concentrate
B: ok so avoid that time, just say when you're free during the day.
A: I will
B: good
A: humph

Please tell me what you think of this conversation, I just want to know if I'm mad or interpreting it correctly

[sunshineandbooks]

UF I'm sorry you're still feeling so troubled by all this.

I don't think there is much to be gained by looking at that conversation. It could mean anything depending on the context. A lot of behaviour can be completely innocuous on its own but as part of a pattern it can be downright abusive even if it is very subtle.

The one thing I think you can do if you are unsure is to go with what feels right. We set a lot of store about rational decision making and logic but it's not always appropriate. One thing I learned from my own abusive relationship, which is mirrored by the experiences of other abused women, is that letting your instincts be overruled by rationalisation is a bad move when it comes to abusive or controlling relationships.

If you feel that his behaviour is abusive, controlling or simply just disrespectful, then it probably is.

Abusers are just like other people. They can be very clever, very stupid or a mixture of both. Some have a lot of awareness, others none. Your H may or may not be aware of what he is doing, but it's irrelevant. Even if he would be genuinely horrified to learn how unhappy you feel, the fact is that you have talked to him about it and he hasn't changed. It's not your job to get him to understand or to change; it's his. You cannot guess how he will react to scenario a or scenario b; you will waste all your mental energy trying to predict his moods and work around them instead of concentrating on doing what's best for you and your DC.

I think the time has probably come to decide what you want and work from that. Your H has had it all his way for a long time and is therefore more than capable of looking out for his own interests. He has already proven that. You are not dealing with a vulnerable child but a fully grown man who has already demonstrated his ability to protect himself and get what he wants. You need to concentrate only on doing the same for yourself. There's no need to take him to the cleaners in a desire for revenge, but make sure you go for what is fair to you and your DD. If he feels it's unfair it's up to him to fight for it.

Good luck.

[UndercoverFeminist]

You're right, but I still am just so tiedup in knots over this, I keep thinking 'if he does x one more time' as if that would prove something.
The conversation earlier just felt like he wasn't sure what time to arrange the phone call for. As it was about work I had no idea so he got really cross with me. Now I'm wondering if it's because he was annoyed that I would be out when he hoped to make the call.

Just now I brought home dinner and we sat and chatted fine, no annoyance at all. So why is he so often annoyed?
Is he just insecure/impatient etc, just finds me annoying, or deliberately controlling.

And I know in a way that it doesn't matter - if 2 people can barely speak withoy getting annoyed then there isn't much point. I don't think I even want to understand what is going on in his mind, I just want to resolve the situation.

When we get on fine I feel so guilty for being so suspicious if him, then another time I'll be asking something perfectly ok, and he'll be horribly grumpy

I am definitely going to talk this through with some people in rl

This thread has been great, but I need to deal with this in a real rather than virtual world

[ThePosieParker]

B is passive aggressive and deliberately obtuse.