Is this a compromise too far? I'd like a feminist viewpoint on this.

[UndercoverFeminist]

OK, I've set up a new account for this, so if you work out who I am, please don't give my regular name.

dh & I have been having major troubles - not many big arguments, but we are now pretty much at an impasse. we are still good friends & get a lot of emotional support from each other, but there is no 'wow' factor, or wish for one, or anything on either side.

we would also like more freedom/flexibility than a traditional marriage allows for.

however, if we split up & live separately, as well as all the emotional fall out (and bot our families will see this as a worse-than-death scenario, and never get over it), there are a huge number of practical difficulties.

basically, we would go from being financially comfortable, happily co-parenting, able to help out etc etc, to having barely enough money to support two houses, no family support & single parents, no companionship etc.

the house we live in is big enough that we have separate rooms, and dh works from home in an office, we kind of live amicable, but fairly separate lives, with dd happy.

HOWEVER - dh just assumes I will do most/all 'wifework'. It has been one of our big issues & one I don't see being resolved. IF we split up, he would have to pay spousal and child support. So if we acknowledge that we are 'over' but continue to co-exist in the same house, I would benefit from his higher salary, and having a back-up parent on hand, but be stuck with being a 'housewife', plus having work.

but then I would be in that position anyway if we split up, and with significantly less money & support.

we live thousands of miles from family, so we could be fairly open about our situation here, without the trauma of telling parents that we're getting divorced.

I have to log off for a while, but would love to know how you lot think this could work out. am i being a complete idiot to think about a 'house share' rather than separating completely?

[UndercoverFeminist]

Lenin - I have twice left my job & followed his career. When we moved here it was illegal for me to work at all, and because it's a different country I am having to start again from the bottom rung, with a part-time job, which will hopefully grow into a full time one. I also have a fledgling small business selling stuff at market over the summer.

this week, while I was at market, he fed dd McDonalds & pasta. The pasta meal happened at 2pm, just as I got back, when it became apparent that I would be late cos my car broke down.

when I go away with dd for a few weeks, he cooks himself meals. the number of meals he's cooked for the family so far this year has been ... 1

he does work long hours, but he has done that in every job he ever had, and if asked about a weekend with family (when we were in the uk), getting food in etc etc, his first response is always 'i'm busy/stressed' etc. he does genuinely work & get involved/stressed by it, but he also hides behind it & uses it as an excuse to avoid doing things, or justify him spending free time how he wants to.

anyway, under my suggested plan, not much on the practical side would change, except that it would clarify things for us more, I would feel able to be open with people about our marriage (we are still pretending to be a happy couple, we have had separate rooms for a year), and we could work towards independent finances, with him contributing towards child maintenance.

and yes, ali , I am wanting to keep my nice life, but if he was happy being married & loved me then I would have pretty much the perfect life for me. If we split up, I face a very uncertain financial future, with no rights to any benefits in any country, no family support, no steady income, a very unhappy & disturbed child. It's not just a bit of downsizing, which I'd do easily, but a really major shift in circumstances, which I can perhaps avoid altogether by being patient for a couple of years.

[Valetude]

How long are you in that country for, and are there plans to move back eventually?

Is there money for a housekeeper who will also prepare meals? I hate the palming off of domestic necessities onto a third party in lieu of one partner getting their shit together, but perhaps this is a situation where throwing some money at the problem would be beneficial (I mean he's clearly not going to grow up now, is he?).

[UndercoverFeminist]

We currently have one joint everything - current account, savings, house.
I will be worse off by separating out the money, but will at least be heading towards independence, and still vastly better off than setting up house for me & dd together.

yes, lenin, i could just carry on, and have been gradually detaching, am now at the point where i can deal with it being 'over', but dread having to tell the parents, and can't see an easy way out of joint finances which doesn't mean we'd lose about 20% of our capital, which would leave me with too little to set up a new house, so then I have to rely on child support etc etc.

no idea about plans to move back etc. staying here means regular contact between h & dd, better housing, better school & I have a job here. my family back home would be little practical support, and dd would almost never get to see h. i'd also be barely able to rent a one bed flat back home IF I could get a job there, so the best solution seems to be staying here. I have just about started to feel 'settled' here & now trying to sort this all out.

luckily, there is no rush, so I can give this some serious consideration. hence, asking for the female/feminist pov. it's actually really important to me that i get some respect & independence. in rl my mother would be all 'stand by your man' and tell me not to nag too much, he works hard, poor dear.

[sunshineandbooks]

I'm really sorry you're going through this. It's hard.

I have my doubts that this would work. Mainly because not a lot is changing as far as your H is concerned. Therefore I doubt his perception of you will change much and as a result neither will your life. So what would you be gaining? I suspect that if you achieved all the changes you wanted he would be the one suggesting maybe it's time to move on to the next step (e.g formal separation). I could be wrong, of course, and there are couples who make this sort of set-up work, but they are few and far between in comparison to the number who try and see it fail.

Despite the obvious thought you've put into this, the main impression I'm getting from your posts is that you fear the unknown/emotional fall-out far more than you are really worried about any practical concerns.

You seem concerned about being fair to your H and shielding your DD. You also seem a bit scared of how you'd cope with a radically different lifestyle. These are all perfectly normal feelings and fears but it stands out how little you are valuing your own unhappiness in comparison to these two factors.

It reads to me like you feel (unnecessarily) guilty because deep down you feel that it's wrong to break up a marriage simply because the 'wow' factor isn't there any more and you're not sure you can justify the effects of separation for that reason.

I think the truth is that you're just not ready emotionally yet. And when you are, your concerns about your DD/money/your respective families' reactions will cease to matter and you will find ways around them.

Whatever you decide, it's your life and so don't let anyone's reaction worry you. I hope it works out for you.

[UndercoverFeminist]

thanks, sunshine

emotionally i think I've moved from feeling married to being in limbo.

he's a total procrastinator & avoider of conflict, so if i don't do something this will just drift on.

i do feel used by him - he's happy for me to live here & do all the work, but doesn't want to be married to me. pretty crap, really, BUT the thought of my life if we split up is even worse. if i can get a job with longer hours, then suddenly i am able to pay all the bills if i 'downsize' into a smaller place, and I would be very happy with that - i like the idea of being completely independent.

i do feel it's wrong to break up a marriage because of lack of 'wow' but he's the one who's had the hissy fits about how he's unhappy & he wants his freedom.

part of me just thinks he dragged me thousands of miles, I've had to completely re-design my life, and now he isn't sure if he's happy enough?

I'm not ready yet to go through all the upheaval of moving, but do think i could deal with telling people that we're friends who co-parent. If they find that too weird, that's their problem. dd knows we have separate rooms & we've discussed it a little.

in the meantime, i am working to get myself a better income.

[UndercoverFeminist]

ok, thinking about this some more - I think I would like to have a decision made.

This has been dragging on for years, with him gradually withdrawing until he had a big yelling match, and moved into the spare room.

He's already dragged this on so long that it's now almost impossible for me to re-marry & have more kids, something I would love to have done. I don't want any more of my life wasted on being in limbo - I don't really have a husband, but nor do I have independence.

So I'd like a decision to be made.

Of course, it could all back fire, and he insist on going straight for divorce & I shall just have to walk the streets learn to live extremely frugally.

[OTheHugeRaveningWolef]

Yout plan is logical, but if you do it I predict the atmosphere it creates in your home will be deeply fucked up and will affect all of you, including your DD, in ways you could never have predicted.

Don't do it. Move out, get maintenance, make it clean. What you're proposing amounts to contracting with your ex to keep you both in your comfort zones whe lying to your daughter about your relationship, all so you both get to keep your lifestyles. Your DD will know things have changed for her parents anyway. What you propose won't benefit her in the long term.

[UndercoverFeminist]

Good point about dd - but we already have separate bedrooms, which she knows, obviously. It's other people we're lying to, by just not saying anything. I haven't asked dd to lie or conceal how we live. If we agree that this is not just a temporary situation while we 'sort things out' then it feels more honest than it is now.

Lenin, he would pay the amount needed by the law, but I can't expect anything more than that. If we divorce, then set up two homes, the amount it would cost to move money around, pay estate agents, divorce lawyers etc, means we wouldn't have enough left to set up two homes. so one of us would be living in a vv small space, and i would like dd to have a bedroom in each of our houses.

like I say, I could just drift along as we are, not try to get any kind of decision, but it feels dishonest, and I don't like the current limbo.

If we decided this, became a bit more public, then consciously built up more savings, looked for the right housing etc, I'd feel we were making progress, but without a sudden, dramatic change that costs us ridiculous amounts.

As soon as I get more work, or one of us finds it impossible, or anything else changes, we'd move on.

[UndercoverFeminist]

I have looked into rental - we could afford for one of us to move into a small flat & pay rent- just. But I'm pretty certain he would refuse to go. I take care of dd most the time, and get her to school & back every day, so I can't see how I could go - take dd with me & share a bedroom?

It is all a horrible mess.

[UndercoverFeminist]

yes, well, Lenin, you may well have a point there.
he doesn't think it's fair that 'the woman' always gets to keep the house. or that he should have to work to pay a mortgage for me while i stay here.
sigh.

so, basically, i'm willing to prostitute myself do his housework, for a couple more years, til I am back on my feet & able to take care of myself.

[HerBeX]

Surely he doesn't have a say in whether he stays or not? A judge decides that? What are the divorce laws like where you live?

Also your DH may react very differently to how you expect, if you push him to make a decision. It's amazing how many men start wailing about how much they love you and can't we just work it out, don't throw it all away, after years of not being "on board" as you describe it, once they realise that their live in maid won't be around anymore. He may react like that, or react with anger and insist on a divorce now.

The other thing is, this sounds to me like you telling him you want a divorce finally, without er, telling him you want a divorce. In a sense, it's giving him more time to prevaricate and maybe giving him the message that you're not serious about wanting your life to change.

I don't have a solution, it sounds like a horrendous situation you're in, I'm just throwing out random thoughts that may or may not help you reach a decision. Hope you manage to find a solution that works for you.

[UndercoverFeminist]

legally I am entitled to 50% of joint savings, then child support & spousal support is worked out according to needs, ability & how much we each care for dd.

Once we've split the savings, one of us could get a small house outright, BUT the income coming in each month, between the two of us, is not enough to pay for the cost of running two houses - tax, gas, electric etc. However we might juggle things, whether fairly or not, it isn't possible to cover 2 lots of bills without selling the bigger house we're in atm.

So, as that is the case, I'd rather just get my own place, be responsible for me, then any child support etc that I get would be a bonus - i do NOT want to be relying on that. What if he loses his job, gets sick etc etc. I know those things can happen anyway, but if you're a family under one roof you can work together, if you're a single parent relying on money, there's nothing you can do except wave the money goodbye.

There's a very good chance that my main job will become ft within the next two years, as which point I can be completely self sufficient. Even if it doesn't it gives me time to save up and use that money to get me set up independently.

and yes, i take on board that this is a bit of a 'wishy washy' solution - but still more defined than the current situation, where we aren't even going for counselling or discussing it, and any hint of discussion leaves him running for the study, too busy to talk.

a year ago, when he had a huge outburst & wanted to end things, I said I suspected he'd just bury his head in the sand & gradually make it so that I end up kicking him out cos he's so bad at making decisions. and here we are now. if i do just flip, and show him the door, then he gets to walk away, confident that he is the victimized good guy, and I get left with a house I can't afford & relying on him being enough of a 'gentleman' to support dd & I.

my current solution is one where i feel like i'm making myself into his maid, but in the long run, i get what i want - independence & security. with the short-term gain of acknowledging what our marital status really is.

he has a big job deadline at the end of Sep. After that I'm going to insist on more counselling (or he leaves, pronto) and start trying to move this situation forward. We are 'stuck' atm, and he is getting all the benefits of having a wife, without having to emotionally commit.

the more i write here, i more i realise that he has to go, doesn't he? sooner or later, i see no way out of this.

[HerBeX]

UF, is he just trying to delay hte inevitable?

Or does he genuinely not realise that his marriage is over?

What will you do if he does the "OMG let's go for counselling, I'll do anything to keep you, how can you throw all this away" thing?

[Handango]

I'm so sorry you're going through this, sounds really horrible, is too easy to put up with crap relationship. No judgement honestly, just get out, free, self, fuck financial consequences, it's really not so bad living in a little flat in not the best area...really

[UndercoverFeminist]

we have been going for counselling, last time we got to a 'crunch point' and suddenly - he's too busy at work to be able to go right now.

the thing that really bothers me atm, is the idea that in order to explain/justify this idea, I end up sounding like people who support the sex industry, ie
if you're being exploited, but know that that's the deal, then you're not really being exploited, you're a willing participant.
and, well I'm the one making the money out of this, so I'm not really being exploited.

if we did go for divorce, it would mean selling off assets & losing a lot of money, which I could live with BUT h would be very upset about & it could v quickly turn v acrimonious. there are times when he's been verbally abusive (very very few times, but enough that I'm wary), so partly I'm trying to do that 'be a non-person' and just slip gradually away, rather than cause any big sudden rift.

[foreverwino]

I think you should kick him out and see what happens.

Btw, why do you think you cant get benefits in the uk? If you are a brit citizen and moved back here you'd be eligible surely?

[foreverwino]

Also, how old are you?

You said you'd like a new relationship/family. This could happen within 2 years if you break now. You dont need to assume that your only choices are this vs single motherhood.

[Himalaya]

Could you split the house physically, in a way that reflects the reality of your relationship? He gets a granny flat and freedom and looks after his own laundry, food etc and has dd to visit.. You and DD live in the main house and look after you and dd?

I have a friend whose parents did that, it seemed to work for them.

My parents did something more like what you are describing. It was ok, but not great .

One thing I would say is whatever you do, tell everyone the same story (including distant relatives) - don't make your DD feel like she has to cover up your family arrangement when she talks to Grand parents etc

[northernruth]

I don't really understand why you have to stay in that house - surely it would be easier if you split and both got smaller places?

But what a situation to be in. He sounds like a petulant small boy griping about his freedom and not wanting men to pay for the upkeep and security of their children.

I think your solution gives him exactly what he wants - freedom, no financial pain, and out of his marriage. And for what? So that you don't have him feel he's the guilty party? You are not responsible for his hurt feelings.

Bear in mind that if you split he will have DD some of the time so then he will still be able to feed her Maccy Ds and plain pasta if that is his choice. My nieces regularly come back from their father's not haing been fed or smelling of crisps when they have been there for 5 hours on a Sunday.

If you want it to work then I would sit down with him and go through it all, decide what division of labour you want. I'd be inclined to stop doing his washing, ironing etc. Don't cook a meal for him. Stop sending birthday cards to his family. Agree on a division of labour for the garden and get the cleaner in once a week. Perhaps agree that if you have less hours one week that you will do X amount of extra housework/ duties. Show him your calculations to demonstrate the financial consequences of him refusing.

You have my utmost sympathy - yours sounds like an extreme version of my own domestic wars. Funny how they can leave early when they want to play football but not when you need them home so you can go out........but that's a whole other thread.

Good luck with it and I hope you can work it out.