Is this a compromise too far? I'd like a feminist viewpoint on this.

[UndercoverFeminist]

OK, I've set up a new account for this, so if you work out who I am, please don't give my regular name.

dh & I have been having major troubles - not many big arguments, but we are now pretty much at an impasse. we are still good friends & get a lot of emotional support from each other, but there is no 'wow' factor, or wish for one, or anything on either side.

we would also like more freedom/flexibility than a traditional marriage allows for.

however, if we split up & live separately, as well as all the emotional fall out (and bot our families will see this as a worse-than-death scenario, and never get over it), there are a huge number of practical difficulties.

basically, we would go from being financially comfortable, happily co-parenting, able to help out etc etc, to having barely enough money to support two houses, no family support & single parents, no companionship etc.

the house we live in is big enough that we have separate rooms, and dh works from home in an office, we kind of live amicable, but fairly separate lives, with dd happy.

HOWEVER - dh just assumes I will do most/all 'wifework'. It has been one of our big issues & one I don't see being resolved. IF we split up, he would have to pay spousal and child support. So if we acknowledge that we are 'over' but continue to co-exist in the same house, I would benefit from his higher salary, and having a back-up parent on hand, but be stuck with being a 'housewife', plus having work.

but then I would be in that position anyway if we split up, and with significantly less money & support.

we live thousands of miles from family, so we could be fairly open about our situation here, without the trauma of telling parents that we're getting divorced.

I have to log off for a while, but would love to know how you lot think this could work out. am i being a complete idiot to think about a 'house share' rather than separating completely?

[UndercoverFeminist]

ok, wouldn't get benefits in the UK as haven't been paying NI, and I would be leaving a job voluntarily to move back there. I'm sure I would after a lot of paperwork, but it could take a while & I would much rather be independent.

I'm in my 40s, and dd was ivf, we did try for a 2nd child but didn't work out, and hugely unlikely now. I also wouldn't want to rush into a relationship just cos I get broody.

his mum is of the 'only good news' type thing, she can cry for hours cos some-one didn't give her enough attention, and she was recently widowed, so now would be kicking her while she's down. not that i intend to live my life for other people, but nor can i knowingly add to her pain.

my parents are the kind who still try to pretend that my cousin didn't have a baby, then get married, my mum gives a kind of nervous laugh, and says 'well, she's got it right now' when it's mentioned. another cousin lives with her boyfriend, but my parents pretend that it isn't so (she's late 20s btw, been together for years). to them, divorce is worse than death. they would immediately demote me from 'married woman' status to 'troublesome teen' because I don't have a man attached to keep control of me.

so I'm thinking that I would never want to move back too close to them, however much they love me.

h can be very hands on, does do some stuff around the house, but thinks that because I'm not at work ALL the time, I should be doing everything. his job is the biggest thing in his life, and always has been. his parents made it v clear to him that he had to be successful or they'd disown him. he is both fearful & resentful about these things, but can't stop himself from working, and expects me to support him emotionally (yes, he has been for therapy).

and, yes, he is 'having it all' if we stay together as an unequal house share. but then I am getting some benefit & buying time to get myself set up. it could be as soon as this winter that I get more work, and def. some more coming my way next summer, so this is temp. not a permanent solution. in the meantime, we could start sorting out money. most of our money is in the UK, if we just pull it out & bring it over, then we'll lose, not just a little, but so much that we end up with not enough to go round. if we do it gradually, don't pay penalty clauses, get a good exchange rate, then we can have enough that we can both be independent.

there have been problems with this marriage for the past decade, waiting one or two years doesn't seem so hard compared with the last few years.

BUT I still feel like I'm selling myself - my housework for his higher salary.

Incidentally, you'd think we got on fine if you knew us - we're happy & laid back, even when it's just two of us, but I can't get over the things he's said when he has an outburst, and I know he doesn't love me, but he doesn't want to move on.

[UndercoverFeminist]

the more I think about this, the more I realise that I'm trying to get up the courage to confront him, and make us move on from this stalemate.

It almost doesn't matter how we resolve things - we DO need to resolve them. He's v much a 'head in the sand' type person who would let this drift for a very long time. I'm too impatient for that.

[ChippingIn]

Part of me wants to say 'leave it as it is' and get as much out of the situation as you can (money, security etc) and schedule in times when he is responsible for DD without fail. Give up on the counselling. Tell him you are fed up of things the way they are and from now on he does his own shopping, meals, laundry etc. Book the cleaner for once a week. Keep working towards building up your income and seeing how long you can put up with it for.

The other part of me wants to say 'get the hell out' and get started on building a life for you and DD on your own.

Bloody hard isn't it.

I think I'd go for A in the first instance as you can do A then B, but not B then A.

[ChippingIn]

The thing is though if you make your mind up - you don't have to tell him what your two year plan is... I would only tell him that you are fed up of him not being a part of the running of the house - from now on he's in charge of DD's on Tuesday & Friday nights (or whatever suits you) without fail, he now needs to do his own laundry, shopping & cooking and cleaning up after himself.

Build up your financial security and career - see how it goes. I don't see you have anything to lose by trying this and once you have made your mind up you may lose your sense of limbo - you don't have to share your every thought - he certainly hasn't been

[HerBeX]

Yes I think I agree with Chippin. If your marriage is really over, why share your plans with him? It sounds as though you think that by doing so, you'll regain a sense of control and self-respect, but you're more likely to get that by making up your mind what you're doing and then getting on with it. If it takes 2 years, so be it, but you've made the decision and telling him about it without actually changing anything, won't make any difference at all except perhaps to make you feel even more resentful of him because telling him won't change his behaviour.

[UndercoverFeminist]

exactly, chipping, hence me using mn to get ideas & think it through. as you can imagine, it's hard to be logical. just going over this now is making me shaky & teary.

I DO have a good group of friends, (who don't know), a gp, therapist & solicitor who all make me feel very supported & protected. but ultimately I have to work this out for myself.

if there is no way of saving the marriage, I want to be independent for myself, completely.

I have tried the getting him to be in charge for x times, it works for a short time, just like him cooking one meal a week worked for 2 weeks. it will be a case of 'shut up and put up' until I can get myself together. hence, why I know I'm being the dutiful little housewife until I can sort things out properly.

btw, as regards money, I spent 2 hours discussing it with the solicitor, she couldn't see a way to make it work either, so it's not me hanging on to a nice lifestyle & being greedy, I'm just staring the facts in the face.

[HerBeX]

"if there is no way of saving the marriage"

?

You sound like you're not sure?

[northernruth]

Actually Chipping makes a really good point, you can implement your plan and then if you are pissed off after 3 months you can still move out. Nothing needs to be cast in stone.

I think by the sounds of it you want to stay put and compromise but you think you are selling yourself short. In that case, give yourself permission to prostitute yourself for a while if it gets you what you want in the long run - you don't have to justify your decision to anyone but you and your family (and certainly not to us)

[HerBeX]

Yes don't feel guilty, he owes you. You've moved twice to support his career and you relieve him of the necessity to care for his own child and clean up his own shit, when has he done the same for you?

But something is bothering me a bit - you don't actually sound like you're 100% sure "the marriage" is unsaveable. You sound as if it is pretty much over, but then you introduced a slight note of doubt a while back and I'm not sure that was just a wording thing or a genuine lack of certainty that it's over.

I think if you haven't moved on emotionally from him, it might be really difficult to stick this out for a couple of years...

[UndercoverFeminist]

i think we both feel stuck but don't want to call time. we ARE good friends & agree on a lot re raising dd etc. BUT there have been some outbursts from him when he's said some truly horrible things - if that's even close to how he really feels, then there is no way we can continue. the vast majority of the time he is perfectly amicable, works hard, does his bit etc. then he 'blows up' and a whole load of resentment comes pouring out.

i think a lot of this is just that i don't want to have to say out loud that the marriage is over, i'm divorced/single mum etc. obviously, some of my parents' attitudes have rubbed off on me.

[UndercoverFeminist]

in the past year, i have far more started doing what I want rather than automatically doing what is best for the family/him. the feminist threads here have made me realise how much i have just taken the path of least resistance & been the little housewife 9as well as the ft job until we moved). sometimes this leads to him yelling at me, as he thinks I'm being selfish & greedy.

so now i have my own anger & resentment too. But I'm not such a fool that I can't see how I benefit.

it is scary how easy it is to be dependent on someone else - i have a degree, a career that could support me, i'm not the stepford wife type, i believe, vehemently, that each adult should make their own contribution. yet here I am, in such a cliched situation, where I suddenly find I'm unable to support myself because I made sacrifices for the man in my life, who now isn't sure if he wants to stay.

btw, he doesn't know if he wants a divorce, but does know that I'm too repulsive to him & he never wants to have sex with me again. I am actually struggling with whether he's just a user, or outright abusive at times (yes, I've discussed it with my therapist)

[vezzie]

Op, i think one of the problems in your marriage which is making you unhappy is that your h does nor respect what you do and you hope that by changing your relationship in this way he will come to respect your role and this will make you feel better. I guess that this will not happen. I guess that he will still take everything you do for granted and disrespect you even if you attempt to change this by attaching a quasi market value to your job at home.

[HerBeX]

I think there's something in what vezzie is saying.

It seems to me that you still want him to respect what you're doing, to see your POV in a sense.

And that telling him your plans, might be your way of giving him a wake up call and getting him to be "on board".

I think you need to be v. careful to sort out in your own mind, what you actually want to happen in an ideal world. You don't sound as if you've "decoupled" from him, in spite of the separate bedrooms and the decision that you want to move on.

[UndercoverFeminist]

yes, I agree with all of that.

which makes me wonder just what kind of a sad sap I am. Why on earth would I want to stay with a man who has this attitude? I'm convinced it's disrespectful, so why don't I just walk?

This is what I can't work out! Once dd is back in school, I can prob get some more therapy sessions for myself, and I need to talk this through.

In the meantime, I am trying to make things 'work' on some level. He seems quite happy to just let things drift along, but I think I will regret that hugely if I don't make something happen.

I do think we're both guilty of burying our heads & waiting for some bolt from the blue to happen - we'll either suddenly fall back in love, or something happen (an affair seems most likely), to make us split.

We've been married 18 years, I have never really been an adult on my own - I can sort of imagine the kind of life I'll have as a single mum, but have no idea how to get from here to there. Or if that's what I really want.

What I really want is a man who loves & respects me, who makes me feel 'I'm worth it' OR to be single & independent, not waiting on child support payments.

[UndercoverFeminist]

no, dittany, absolutely no sex at all for a very, very, very, long time.

and yes, I have read plenty on here about abusive/entitled men.

i have discussed, in detail, some incidents with my therapist (we have 3 between us - one each, and a couples one - aren't we lucky?). she sees his behaviour as mainly using me, taking me for granted, with the occasional outburst that is verbal abuse.

there has never been any physical violence, or close to it (no pushing past me or anything like that, nor standing over me etc).

he has only ever really lost it when shouting at me about 3 or 4 times, total, so very rare, BUT now that I have seen that side of him, I am wary, and do not trust him. I would never confide in him, or turn to him for emotional support.

he still expects emotional support from me (which is, of course, 'wifework').

he is very much a head-in-the-sand type person, who would let this drift, rather than risk a confrontation. anything I have faced up to him abut, he has backed down on. i'm definitely NOT blindly being brow-beaten. I AM however, wanting to take more control of my life, and trying to come up with a successful 'exit strategy'.

however, if he feels too upset/put upon, he could turn nasty. Worst case scenario? Loads of scathing sarcasm, a few big shouty outbursts, and getting a solicitor to make sure he pays out as little as possible. Or he might go morose, work all the hours, not take care of himself. Or he could be fine, very polite & business like about the whole thing.

So, I want to make sure that I do not have to rely on him, for money or childcare or support of any kind, which means I need to buy myself some time.

I am close to certain that he would still maintain contact with dd, although I'm sure there will be times when he would let her down as work would come first.

He can be quite negative, critical, but makes a lot more effort with her, and my worst fear is that he would be impatient with her, or her day with him would be macdonalds & playing video games (which she'd love and isn't a biggy, really). he had parents who never took him out, chatted to him etc, just controlled him, but he has made the effort to be a better parent than that.

i think he just found that marriage (ie me) was too demanding for him, without giving him the security that he never got at home, so now he resents me & wants out, BUT he also doesn't want to be alone.

part of me is hoping that he finds someone else, it would just resolve this whole messy situation. I'm hoping that if I can present him with a financial plan that provides for all of us without ruining us, then he'll agree to it & I will get what I want - a home for dd & I that I can maintain without having to worry about payments from him etc.