Does penetration = presumption of power/control?

[skrumle]

Was chatting with my H last night and mentioned the Romeo and Juliet law in Ireland that's been discussed on here a few times. Anyway, when I asked if he thought it was reasonable his immediate answer was "no". I then asked him: if our son was gay, and started a conversation about a sexual experience that he was unhappy/uncomfortable about would he be more likely to feel that our son had been forced/co-erced if he was the one penetrated rather than penetrating and got a in reply...

I have to be honest, when I read the original thread on here my automatic view was that to protect girls over boys like this was to deny the fact that girls enjoy sex too, almost like taking a step back. When I read the thread fully though and thought about the implications for girls I probably did start to think that girls should have more protection than boys.

So, should there be a presumption that penetration equals a greater degree of control? So two heterosexual 15yos - greater responsibility lies with the boy to ensure that this is what both of them want?

Gang violence?!

Oh ... and thanks to my mom, my dad, my cat fluffy and especially my 2,000 biggest fans who PM'ed me with support, it was real tough at times but we got through it together and now I know I will always be strong with Jesus at my side.

... I do find it remarkable that Jenny's many 'supporters' are all such shrinking violets they can't post a word on the thread but rush to her side with PMs.

Bye!

Don't let the door hit your ballsack on your way out.

QED

Do try to speak in whole sentences, Jenny. It makes your posts look so much less like nonsense in a pretentious language.

HOUSE!!!!

Oh, before you go, Jenny, I posted a serious response on the DSK thread. Did you see? Or wasn't there anything there for you to take the piss out of?

Hmm, I felt that 'tainted' feminism was so much more evocative than merely 'giving feminists a bad name'.

I think we also need IFRNE ('it's fucking 'radical' not 'extreme').

(Was that bingo narky? Well done. )

When I think of it, Aye, Jenny still hasn't replied to anything of substance in my posts a while back about whether or not it'd be good for society if we stopped having PIV - she only bothered to accuse me of defending someone else's theories.

Do I win a straw man woman

Complete with dungarees, Narky

Aye, it's unfortunate timing but I think you'll find that's the Beast you just linked to! (Post no. 666).

Perfect, LRD.

This religion stuff is really intriguing, and has conjured up a dim and distant memory about John Milton (him of Paradise Lost) writing something about sex being a key aspect of marriage, and that marriage without sex wasn't true marriage. He was very religious, which suggests that the Church weren't too bothered about sex. And the Puritans left Britain in 1630-ish, which would have been around the time - wasn't England a bit too liberal for them?

This couls all be tosh and I hope someone will be along to correct me if so...

I can believe that of Milton - mind you he also comes out with the legendary phrase 'he for God alone, she for God in him' re. Adam and Eve, so I'm not sure how feminist he was. I suspect it was more 'menz haz needz'. In, erm, verse, you know.

I think very few Christian sects have ever wanted to ban sex totally - being ok with PIV is usually the one exception. Which I think makes it even odder.

Some men still think sex is all marriage is 'for', which is pretty horrible actually. As in, 'she wouldn't sleep with me so I married her'.

Help I'm having a bit of a u-turn.

Now that the dog with a bone bit of people enjoy PIV has faded I am thinking about the journey of all roads lead to PIV for most women until we mature enough to ask for more. Before PIV I too had more adventurous episodes with men and have very few recollections of one night or short relationships having encounters that didn't include PIV.

I also have looked at this through narrow eyes and I apologise for coming to, yet another, feminist discussion with a closed kind focussing on the one point I disagree with.

Life outside MN is quite tricky at the moment but I am publically pledging to read and listen more, ask questions, shut up and learn. I'm not quite sure about what's wrong with me, I never used to be like this. I hope you all have the patience to bear with me whilst I get myself back on track, I lost myself somewhere.

xxx

Are you ok posie? It's rotten when real life is getting you down - very easy to come on here in a bad mood, don't worry, we've probably all done it!

SaF, of course I care. You seemingly annoy me more than anyone!! But perhaps that's because you're more true to yourself than I can be....I'm really sorry.

LRD. I'm living in a broken world, one that I paint and one that I live. At the moment if I met myself I probably wouldn't like me very much. I used to be nice, upbeat, fun, non judgemental and I can't even remember when I changed.

Sorry you're having a hard time, Posie.

Thinking about feminism is difficult and it is easy to get defensive. Personally, I find seeking out the commonalities and trying to understand the other point of view before I wade in helps keep my blood pressure down. Oh, and not being offensive. Took me many years to get to the point where I could wait to give my opinion, though.