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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Heteromonogamy is really just another way to waste women's time, isn't it?

281 replies

solidgoldbrass · 08/08/2011 00:13

All those books, articles, courses on how to Find The One, Make Him Commit, Keep It Exciting - keeping women occupied with the Perfect Relationship means they don't have time to do anything interesting with their lives.

OP posts:
LeninGrad · 10/08/2011 08:43

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TheFrozenMBJ · 10/08/2011 09:00

I think that a lot of women would too though, Len. I mean that in the nicest possible way, please don't misunderstand me. Having children, especially small children, is very, very hard work and there is very little time off. And even if you manage to squeeze a couple of hours out for yourself a week/month it is still dependent on whether the children are well and you having the option of affording childcare or having willing family.

I think, given the option many men AND women (not all by any means, but many) would quite like the benefit of having children without the unrelenting responsibility.

Sharing parenting and family life with another adult does make it easier to parent. Whether that is a sexual partner, co-parent, family member, etc. Especially if at least one of you can out paid employment to the side for a little while at least.

Riveninside · 10/08/2011 09:00

Wouldnt mind a third parent who was committed to dd cos we are bloody knackered. But where would we out him/her?

swallowedAfly · 10/08/2011 09:15

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swallowedAfly · 10/08/2011 09:15

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TheFrozenMBJ · 10/08/2011 09:21

Maybe your subconscious knows something sAf Grin

Perhaps you can start a thread asking if abpnyine would be willing, (although you might be thought a troll immediately Sad)

TheFrozenMBJ · 10/08/2011 09:22

Abpnyine?!? Anyone

snowmama · 10/08/2011 10:08

I must be being unclear...where have I suggested that this thread is a discussion of banning hetromonogomy? Just have said it does not suit all, and does definately not suit me.

snowmama · 10/08/2011 10:10

....and also I remain unconvinced by the extent of legal/financial protection afforded by marriage.

swallowedAfly · 10/08/2011 10:40

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swallowedAfly · 10/08/2011 10:41

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snowmama · 10/08/2011 11:17

...my point is even more mundane than that..I don't think marriage gives any automatic security full stop. ..it can very easily be a cage, but what is the security.

shared finances can (and do) result in net loss / shared roles can result in a woman giving up work and having to do all the wifework etc, etc.

..and can cost a fortune to get divorced./ sort out children assets etc legsll

StewieGriffinsMom · 10/08/2011 11:38

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kickassangel · 10/08/2011 13:51

snowmama, I agree with you.

i think marriage gives security when it's working well, but when it ends or goes wrong, there is very little protection.

just look at how many 'my ex won't pay' type threads there are on here - too often the women are left holding the baby, with no income & no support.

i'm starting to think that a pre-nup should be compulsory before marriage/kids - if you were forced to discuss what would happen in the case of a break-up, and make it legally binding, then it would be very hard to be so 'loved up' that you didn't see the potential of your partner's most negative side when under duress.

Vixaxn · 10/08/2011 14:10

SwallowedAfly, just curious - did you have a father there for you when you were growing up? I'm not sure I like your idea (correct me if i've misunderstood) of an alternative system where a woman would have children from different men at different points of her life, when it suited her, with only you/the mother being their constant parent and the children getting either limited or no access to their fathers would be ideal for the children or the children's fathers, however much it might suit the mother.

swallowedAfly · 10/08/2011 14:16

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swallowedAfly · 10/08/2011 14:17

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TheFrozenMBJ · 10/08/2011 14:22

SGM you've made me think, with or without children live is easier lived as a partnership or co-operative. Provided of course it is an equal partnership

Vixaxn · 10/08/2011 14:30

Apologies SwallowedAfly, it was Shecutofftheir tails who peoposed this 'thought experiment'

"The argument is not that relationships are a waste of time, it's that heteromonogamy wastes women's time.

My point is that we live in a culture that tells women that they can't have children until they've found a man who wants to "commit" and that given that women's fertility is time limited, that that culture puts women at a disadvantage.

The thought experiment is to imagine a world where women choose when to have children whenever they choose throughout their lives, regardless of their relationship status. So maybe a young woman decides to have a child straight after college before further study. She gets pregnant by a close friend "with benefits" who is involved with their child. They never life as a couple.

Then she qualifies and works on her career for a while. By that stage she is in a steady relationship so has another two children by her then partner. She gives up work when the children are small and starts her own company. Her relationship breaks down, but as she approaches menopause she decides to give motherhood a last chance. She is single, so uses a sperm donor.

During her 30s she has also donated eggs to a gay couple who wanted to have children by a surrogate.

A woman who lived her life like this would be excoriated for having 4 children by 3 different fathers, for getting pregnant before starting her career, for being an older mother. That's not how the script is meant to play out."

I can see how this would suit women's fertility window, but otherwise as a 'thought experiment' I don't think this would be a great way to have children, for their well-being, security and development. I don't know if it was presented as a preferable model, but I am just saying I don't like the sound of it. Waiting for a good partner and trying to keep that family together seems ideal to me, if difficult - though other lifestyles, like single-mother, or gay adopting, should not be seen as 'bad.'

LeninGrad · 10/08/2011 14:32

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swallowedAfly · 10/08/2011 14:34

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Wamster · 10/08/2011 14:36

But what if a cohabiting couple don't want the same rights as married ones?

It's not about which is 'better', it's about freedom of choice.

If marriage is a cage for some women, which I thoroughly accept that it might be, is it really beneficial to put a cohabiting woman into the same cage when she has opted to not go into it in the first place as she has not married?

At least with how things stand with cohabiting couples, a woman can leave without having the societal pressure to claim maintenance from her former partner- it can't be good for a woman to be pressurised into claiming money from a man who has been abusive to her when she just wants a clean break from him and no-strings cohabitation does at least provide a 'clean break' -certainly more so than marriage does, anyway.

Equating cohabitation with marriage may seem like a good idea, but really it is just a way of a patriarchal system forcing a woman to be effectively married -like it or not. Not a good idea at all. That's not even going into freedom of choice issues- of which there a quite a few.

swallowedAfly · 10/08/2011 14:37

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swallowedAfly · 10/08/2011 14:40

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Vixaxn · 10/08/2011 14:45

"i assume it would have been nice if i'd said, no i never had a daddy, and you could then portray me as somehow pathologically affected by my upbringing and projecting that on the world?"

Eh? No, not at all. I misremembered you had wrote the post that I have subsequently found was written by Shecutofftheirtails, and was wondering if a woman who had never known her father or saw him regularly would suggest such a thought experiment. And I apologised for ascribing the post to you.

"not that it's relevant but HTH."

HTH?

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