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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Consumerism, budgeting and wifework

155 replies

Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 04/08/2011 04:28

So you know, just a trivial thread then.

Blackcurrants said something in the decluttering thread about us all having far more stuff than our forebears, and that partly leading to this problem with housework. I don't think that's at all true, actually. I think biggish households used to have big stores of linens, preserved food, candles, etc., because it wasn't possible to run out and buy a replacement at 2am, and without machines to wash dishes and clothes and carpets one needed more of those things to allow for the time consuming process of cleaning them.

But the reason I'm talking about it in a different thread is, I've been thinking about consumerism recently. It seems like everyone in my world is talking budgeting, decluttering, repurposing. We're in an era of austerity. Just as the mythical traditional household set up (woman at home, man at work, a nuclear family situation that existed between about 1945 and 1960) is held up as the Golden Ideal by social conservatives, it seems like wartime austerity, or the depression, are being lauded as an 'we was poor but we was 'appy' ideal.

And just as women are judged by the state of their houses, I think we're also, in this era, judged by, and blamed for, how much we buy. Are you poor? Is your home too small? Do you have debts? Well it's all that plastic crap you buy, isn't it? If you were just pure of heart and put more time and energy into repurposing, recycling, decluttering, you wouldn't have any of these problems. Look at the shining example of your forebears!

It's bloody women's work again, though, isn't it? All the women I know spend time decluttering, thinking about our houses, repurposing furniture (ok, that's fun, but still), scouring charity shops and flea markets for things to use, we swap coupons and keep mental lists of sales cycles, we meal plan and we start threads on websites about all of it. It just occurred to me yesterday how much mental energy, and in fact physical time, I spend on this. My husband, who has always done loads of housework and childcare and been about as Nigel as one can be? He does not think about this. At all. Ever. Yes, I spend more than he does. Because I do all the kid purchases, all the food purchases, all the home decor purchases. All on sale, or thrifted, or freecycled.

I suspect that even in households where the husband is the earner, and/or controls the finances, the minutaie that I'm talking about is wifework. Do you think I'm right?

OP posts:
snowmama · 05/08/2011 17:03

Whilst I would like to take credit for introducing foregrounding into the conversation...Sakura introduced that concept.Smile

Though I agree it is a great way of thinking about it.

snowmama · 05/08/2011 17:09

wallis I wouldn't want to live your life anymore than you would want to live mine...and that is point, we are all expected to want to do the wifework....when in reality these activities only generate pleasure/satisfaction for a much smaller minority of women.

blackcurrants · 05/08/2011 17:15

ah - well that'll teach me to multi-task badly! I should be concentrating on the important things in life (MN, obv) and only that. Plus I need more coffee.

Wallis It's lovely that you feel empowered by your lifestyle choices.

to be honest, I think I would like to be your DH - it sounds like he lives in a (tasteful, comfortable) hotel - and after a long day at a demanding well paid job he doesn't have to think about "what's for dinner" or "when does DS need to go to the dentist" or anything like that. I'd enjoy it. Cos when I come home from a long day at a demanding job, I have to do all that thinking and make all those choices. And sometimes, it's too much, too tiring. But if I take an easy option -takeaway, plonk child in front of telly - I feel guilty about it because I am not being a Good Mother.

I think if one partner is willing and happy to take on the shitwork while the other one is willing and able to support them financially, then (while it's a bit risk for the SAHP financially) it's just dandy. But when both parents have to go out to work because neither one of them makes enough money, and then one parent still does all the shitwork, and that one parent is almost always the female parent, well then, this becomes and issue worthy of feminist analysis.

Lifeissweet · 05/08/2011 17:26

Purely anecdotally (and I don't know whether any actual valid research has been done into this) I have two friends who are SAHDs and in both cases, the wife leaves them a list of tasks to get done each week. They do the 'work' but that thinking part that takes up so much brain space is still not done by themselves. I do think this is because women are conditioned into taking responsibility for the household and also - as somebody said somewhere above (can't be bothered to trawl back - sorry!) they know that they will still be the ones to be judged on the state of the house and the way the children are presented and organised when they get to school.

Also, both of these men do not devote their time to looking after the house and the children. They both do other things (one makes music, the other paints) so that they still have a purpose and a status in the world.

I stayed at home for 2 years when my DS was a baby and hated it. Obviously I liked bits of it and enjoyed having time to bond, but I just found the whole thing so boring and relentless and soul destroying. It was far easier to return to my hard, stressful, more than full-time job because all I had to organise was myself all day long. it was blissful (but I still had to go out in my lunch hours to buy and send birthday cards, pick up something for dinner...etc)

Wallissimpson · 05/08/2011 17:35

Actually, I do object to the term shitwork.
It's what millions of women CHOOSE to do and labelling it as such further devalues it, which is surely what so many feminists are arguing against? Why and how is raising children, cooking, keeping a home, running kids to social activities, maintaining your familiy's health etc shitwork? I'd argue that it's probably more important and significant than being paid to push paper around a desk by a stranger ( probably a man, too).
Snowmama, well, you don't really know much about my life , do you? Except I am a SAHM with school children.

A few years ago I stopped doing any of the thinking about or present buying for DH's family. Mostly 'cos I hate them all, TBH. Now DH does it and is shit at it, late, crap presents etc.
Suits me! Grin

snowmama · 05/08/2011 17:38

Life that is my anecdotal experience of SAHD's too, agree on the judgement too.

As it has it has been said already...can I also say that I think Wallis's husband has a great life.

Wallissimpson · 05/08/2011 17:42

He does snowmama.

So does his wife Wink

snowmama · 05/08/2011 17:46

Wallis I am not judging you or your lifestyle. However, basds on your posts in particular the previous post about what you do for your husband, I know I would personally hate to do all that and would be pretty bad at it.

which is the point....we should not oppress each other with a 'one size fits all' approach to life.

Wallissimpson · 05/08/2011 17:46

Although he would say that not seeing the children and me for ten days or so isn't so great.

We do have a very traditional marriage but it really works very well indeed. We are in a position financially that if I don't want to do a job or it's too much, I'll outsource it. Cleaning and ironing for example. And I have several babysitters so I never miss a social event if he isn't here .
I'll reiterate what I've said further up the thread, wifework is not a drudge for some women. It's dependant on finances as much as anything. I've never been looked sown upon for not working or seen as inferior, really I haven't. That is the norm for wives in DH's line of work. Friends of mine who have to work think I'm a jammy git. I tend to agree.

Wallissimpson · 05/08/2011 17:47

I outsource a fair bit snowmama, cleaning, gardening, ironing.

Lifeissweet · 05/08/2011 17:50

How does your DH feel about it, Wallis? I only ask, because I'm trying to look at it in reverse and I honestly think I would hate someone to doing all of that work so that I wouldn't have to. I would feel guilty, rightly or wrongly, because that is how women feel about wifework - guilty that they don't do it, or guilty that they don't do it well enough

I don't think anyone should live in a house and not take responsibility for some of the tasks involved. That is how my house is run. We share the jobs (although, as discussed, I am still the one who determines what those jobs are and when they need doing, which is tedious). I think my DP would feel guilty too if I did it all (because I'd make him, probably!)

It is great that you enjoy it, Wallis, but you have made a choice because you had a choice to make and so many women don't.

Lifeissweet · 05/08/2011 17:52

However, I also agree that outsourcing the work would make it less of a drudge, obviously. Why outsource it if you're at home because you enjoy it? I'm a little confused!

Wallissimpson · 05/08/2011 17:54

As for not assuming one size fits all - how does that tally with calling housework shitwork, then? Is that not an entirely judgemental phrase?

TheRealTillyMinto · 05/08/2011 17:55

wifework is not about couples with a division of labour that works for them.

snowmama · 05/08/2011 17:56

Wallis that is all fine as long as you realise it is your dream not everybody's.many of my colleagues wives lives similar lives to you,some are very happy some are terribly sad.

Life, if I lived with someone who took so much pleasure in house management(genuinely)..I don't think I would feel guilty.

Wallissimpson · 05/08/2011 17:58

I enjoy being at home, doesn't mean I enjoy ironing! And you still have to clean - a cleaner only does a few hours a week!
What does my DH think, lifeissweet?

He's 100% happy with it, as am I. I would hate to go out to work and he would hate to SAH.
When he is here on weekends etc we share, of course we do but in his work hours I do wifework for a teeny while then I swan about usually.

snowmama · 05/08/2011 17:58

....possibly Wallis, but I didn't call wifework, shitwork...

Though I do personally find it shit.

Bonsoir · 05/08/2011 17:58

If you are at home and comfortably off financially, why not outsource/delegate the bits that you don't enjoy in order to spend more time on the bits you do?

Bonsoir · 05/08/2011 17:59

Men who earn plenty of £££ don't usually want their OHs scrubbing all day - they would feel bad about it!

Wallissimpson · 05/08/2011 18:00

snowmama, neither is it many women's dreams to work and then come home and have to put the bins out/nag the old man to put the bins out.
Lots of us would rather we put them out ourselves then sat down with a cuppa .

Wallissimpson · 05/08/2011 18:01

snowmama, I would find being a wage slave for a miserable fraction of what DH earns, shit work.

snowmama · 05/08/2011 18:04

..hence me skipping the whole living with a man business altogether, much easier and more fun for me

snowmama · 05/08/2011 18:08

Once again Wallis I think you live the right life for you....that does not equate to being right for all women.

I personally love earning the high wage myself....but as my socialist sisters would remind me...this position is not entirely unproblematic....

evenlessnarkypuffin · 05/08/2011 18:10

The suggestion that everyone get a maid is a little impractical.

The point about putting a fiscal value on wifework, and how that can actually result in it suddenly being recognised as having value is interesting.

snowmama · 05/08/2011 18:19

Yes, ELNP.....agreed. There was an interesting thread...on the phone so can't find it....about counting childcare and domestic work in the GDP.