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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Consumerism, budgeting and wifework

155 replies

Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 04/08/2011 04:28

So you know, just a trivial thread then.

Blackcurrants said something in the decluttering thread about us all having far more stuff than our forebears, and that partly leading to this problem with housework. I don't think that's at all true, actually. I think biggish households used to have big stores of linens, preserved food, candles, etc., because it wasn't possible to run out and buy a replacement at 2am, and without machines to wash dishes and clothes and carpets one needed more of those things to allow for the time consuming process of cleaning them.

But the reason I'm talking about it in a different thread is, I've been thinking about consumerism recently. It seems like everyone in my world is talking budgeting, decluttering, repurposing. We're in an era of austerity. Just as the mythical traditional household set up (woman at home, man at work, a nuclear family situation that existed between about 1945 and 1960) is held up as the Golden Ideal by social conservatives, it seems like wartime austerity, or the depression, are being lauded as an 'we was poor but we was 'appy' ideal.

And just as women are judged by the state of their houses, I think we're also, in this era, judged by, and blamed for, how much we buy. Are you poor? Is your home too small? Do you have debts? Well it's all that plastic crap you buy, isn't it? If you were just pure of heart and put more time and energy into repurposing, recycling, decluttering, you wouldn't have any of these problems. Look at the shining example of your forebears!

It's bloody women's work again, though, isn't it? All the women I know spend time decluttering, thinking about our houses, repurposing furniture (ok, that's fun, but still), scouring charity shops and flea markets for things to use, we swap coupons and keep mental lists of sales cycles, we meal plan and we start threads on websites about all of it. It just occurred to me yesterday how much mental energy, and in fact physical time, I spend on this. My husband, who has always done loads of housework and childcare and been about as Nigel as one can be? He does not think about this. At all. Ever. Yes, I spend more than he does. Because I do all the kid purchases, all the food purchases, all the home decor purchases. All on sale, or thrifted, or freecycled.

I suspect that even in households where the husband is the earner, and/or controls the finances, the minutaie that I'm talking about is wifework. Do you think I'm right?

OP posts:
snowmama · 05/08/2011 09:59

LoL HerBex - always willing to share a mundane staple food receipe :-)

TrillianAstra, sure, in a past when I had energy that would have sounded like hell on earth. Hopefully, though, your DP would also pull his weight to ensure that your only choice was not identical meals or having to spend a lot of time/energy cooking something lovely, after a very long day at work or looking after the kids.

fluffles · 05/08/2011 10:03

i toally agree about wifework and the concept of it (though i have avoided a lot of it by marrying very late and refusing to take on any of the things my DH used to do perfectly well for hiself before i met him and refusing to feel embarassed if HE forgets one of HIS relatives or friends birthdays or whatever)

BUT... i think clutter and decluttering is a fundamental personality thing. i know men and women who are comforted by having posessions around and feel edgy throwing things away (in case they're useful later). i also know men and women (like me) who feel possessions as a burden and can't stand having stuff around that isn't actively used and get a massive release from throwing stuff away (or even better, freecycling).

i would agree however, that whoever the hoarder is in a relationship and whoever the declutterer is, it is 90% the woman who is judged by the results.

snowmama · 05/08/2011 10:05

sorry custardo xposted.

Your DH's 'passive resistance' is so effective though, isn't it -he just doesn't do it so you have to consider/think /do ...

What would happen if you just stopped it all, no laundry, forget the essentials in the shop, ignore the bins on Wednesday ....of course as I write this, I want to write a disclaimer saying 'obviously you can't do this if you have kids'.. then I realise what I have just thought and think fuck...

TheRealTillyMinto · 05/08/2011 10:42

there are also many equal/largely equal relationships where for practical/financial reasons the woman does the wifework.

but from a feminist perspective it is significant that it is the woman who still ends up doing the (undervalued/low status) work. some enjoy it, some dont, but far fewer men do the task.

Tortington · 05/08/2011 11:32

ive been married for over 20 years and i have employed many many techniques. that is why i have this dichotomy.

if i didn; mention it

we would get rats

it would end up like the houses you see on the telivision where the council go round and find two old people living in one square foot surrounded by shit.

and he would say 'i didn't notice'
and she would say' well he wouldn't take the bin out in 1989'

anyway, even through i resent it, i have come to the conclusion that i need to tell dh what to do like a 12 year old schoolboy.

today i told him what was required of him on his day off whilst i am hard at work mumsnetting

Tortington · 05/08/2011 11:34

and i think there needs to be a distinction between doing the wifework and managing that the wifework gets done.

i do the latter. i don't do it, but i enforce what i consider to be fair. however there is only me thinking of it

Bonsoir · 05/08/2011 11:41

If you feel very strongly that you don't want to do the "wifework" (household management), you need to go out to work and subcontract it to someone who wants the job. Not argue with your DH.

TimeWasting · 05/08/2011 11:41

The thinking is the hardest part of the wifework!
My poor brain is full of approximate number of toilet rolls, location of passports and estimates of how long the grass will be by the time DH has a day off again, incorporating likelihood of rain, it now being August. Confused

TimeWasting · 05/08/2011 11:42

Subcontracting the work is wifework!

Bonsoir · 05/08/2011 11:43

Oh come on, when you have a couple of worthy Filipinas living in your attic and giving you 7 day a week coverage, they only need a couple of weeks training and you are up and running for years.

Tortington · 05/08/2011 11:46

i work full time and emply a cleaner once a week.

Was only done once a week that would be fine. I think it is amazingly naïve and ignorant of the working classes to suggest that everyone can work and subcontract actually.

HerBeX · 05/08/2011 11:50

oh take no notice of Bonsoir she's on a wind up as usual.

Bonsoir · 05/08/2011 11:57

No, not a wind up. There's no point complaining about household management - it's as much a part of any adult life as sleeping. What you have to do is look for a solution that suits your family.

MysteriousHamster · 05/08/2011 11:57

Interesting thread. My colleague and I were only discussing the 'buying household stuff' part of wifework last week. Her and her husband had been budgeting now they're newly married and looking at what each other spend as they change things to a joint account. She had loads of ebay and paypal, and cheapo shop purchases that he wanted to know what on earth she'd been spending it on. He just had cash withdrawals and money spent at petrol stations/supermarkets - and actually spent more.

But she felt obliged to explain - and her purchases were things like cleaning solutions, stuff for the garden, cheap loo roll, air freshener - stuff that he would never think to buy, but that (largely) was useful around the house. And she'd made the effort to get it all at discount prices.

He spent more, as I said, and when asked it all seemed to go on meals and drinks with friends - which was fine!

My husband is great at general wifework around the home - he is more domestically minded than me in many ways - but I still end up doing most of the little purchases that keep the house running.

TimeWasting · 05/08/2011 12:17

Bonsoir, household management is necessary, but why does it generally fall to the woman to do it? Even when that woman works full-time as in Custardo's case?
Yes, we try and look for practical solutions, we also analyse the situation in threads like this.

HerBeX · 05/08/2011 12:19

You can only find solutions that work, if you hav properly analysed why the situation has arisen in the first place

LRDTheFeministDragon · 05/08/2011 12:23

Bonsoir, I think the problem is, that's a very privileged viewpoint. DH and I earn roughly a minimum wage each. We're not complaining, we're very happy. We work hard. But as you can imagine, subcontracting the work out is not an option!

TheRealTillyMinto · 05/08/2011 12:32

you would need to afford a housekeeper (and...?) to avoid wifework. a cleaner is only a part of it.

HerBeX · 05/08/2011 12:35

It's also not a feminist solution to the problem (and this is, after qall, the feminist board).

Rich women contracting out the shitwork to poor women, is indeed an effective solution for a minority of rich men and women. But effective and feminist isn't always the same thing. It doesn't address the structural inequalities between men and women, which mean that men have the luxury of not having to bother to think about all this boring stuff, because a woman - whether it be his wife or his servant - will think about it so that he can think about more interesting or important stuff, like politics, work, football, porn, his mistress, etc.

TheRealTillyMinto · 05/08/2011 12:36

having a cleaner, does not solve the problem of wifework. it just means you are able to avoid IMO the most boring part. all the other stuff remains.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 05/08/2011 12:38

True, HerBeX. And I don't honestly see why two adults in a household should struggle, really. If a grown man can't or won't look after himself, that is a bigger problem than employing a housekeeper could solve.

Bonsoir · 05/08/2011 12:42

It's perfectly possible to subcontract the work out to men, if that makes you feel like a better feminist. There are lots of Filipino nannies/chauffeurs/housekeepers around, and most window cleaners/DIY people/delivery drivers are men.

TheRealTillyMinto · 05/08/2011 12:48

outsourcing is a solution but it obviously cannot work for everyone.

HerBeX · 05/08/2011 12:48

Yes but that doesn't solve the problem of knowing that one person in the relationship doesn't believe that doing the basics of wifework, is something that they are 50% responsible, does it Bonsoir?

That's what this thread is about.

snowmama · 05/08/2011 12:50

Errmm, beyond the fact that subcontracting beyond a couple of hours cleaning a week, is unaffordable to the majority... why does subcontracting equate to a particular race? Or have I missed a significant tangent to this thread?