Some men really hate women being single don't they?

[solidgoldbrass]

inspired by a couple of other threads including the separatism one. Have you ever noticed that if a man you don't like or know or fancy is trying to persuade you to date him or spend time with him or even just talk to him, the only really effective way to make him fuck off is to tell him that you are another man's property. Just saying No, leave me alone, no thanks, actually I am having a conversation with my female friend and am not interested in talking to you, never seems to work until you throw in My Boyfriend or My Husband.

Wamster, this thread is about the ones that don't go away. The ones that are annoying.

I'm sure if we all listed the men who asked 'fancy a drink?' or made a drinky-drinky sign with their hands, or danced over and caught our eye, and then went away again when we shook our heads, or laughed and said no, or whatever, then there would be plenty of those men.

I cannot understand why you're so keen to defend those men whose behaviour is misogynistic.

Wamster it is a great suggestion, if they would listen. We don't know what the solution is, the actions of these men are so unreasonable. It shouldn't be us changing, it should be them.

I told one bloke that I wouldn't go out with him if he were the last man on earth and I had a gun to my head. He still didn't leave. What the hell else could I have done?

We suggest that men learn that even if a woman doesn't have a partner, she has the right to be left alone. Simple as.
That way, men don't get into situations where they make a pest of themselves and women don't have their time wasted by repeating themselves

You have to judge each situation as it arises, as best you can. There is no one "right" response.

I think that what you are saying could inflame the situation TBH, cause things to escalate.

It doesn't sound to me like you have ever actually been in this situation, you don't seem to have much of a feel for these how things work IRL.

I mean, kick him in the balls? What on earth are you talking about?

And as for your suggestion, Orangehat, that I have never been in this situation myself, then I can only interpret that in one of two ways:

1, You think I am a bit of a dog who never gets chatted up. But as you have no idea what I look like, this is obviously bollocks so I will dismiss it. Or perhaps it is you being bitchy in a -wholly illogical- way?

2, I do get chatted up, so although I have been chatted up, my attitude works as I don't attract the dickheads who won't go away.
Yet here I am being slagged off as not knowing what I am talking about.

"2, I do get chatted up, so although I have been chatted up, my attitude works as I don't attract the dickheads who won't go away."

So it's our fault then?

wamster you are coming a across as very hostile.
1, No one has suggested anything about your physical appearence, nor are they being bitchy, this is your interpretation.
2, It is possible that you project something that causes men to listen very carefully, if so you are very lucky, or very selective about the clubs you go to. You have been very hostile to myself and others on this thread, if this is your normal behaviour, it could be that men are picking up on.

How about it is nobody's fault if a guy is a bit slow on the uptake and does not go away immediately but does go away eventually without assaulting or being abusive to the woman he is chatting up?

Wamster your posts are a bit strange. Your a. and b. are way off. Your comments about nightclubs and hands up skirts are way off. Your ideas about anything being fine as long as it's not a physical assault are way off. Your talk about men not getting a hint is way off.

It is hard to have a proper conversation with you when you keep pulling all this random stuff from nowhere.

FFS.

We are talking about

men who refuse to leave

"How about it is nobody's fault if a guy is a bit slow on the uptake and does not go away immediately but does go away eventually without assaulting or being abusive to the woman he is chatting up?"

How about yes that is absolutely fine BUT IS NOT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ON THIS THREAD.

"If his actions result in inappropriate touching, assault or kidnap then obviously this is a breach and should be reported to the police for the crimes that they are"
because that always turns out so well, see the fabulously high conviction rate for sexual offences.
Or not.

Trying to move the convo into the positive zone, I'd like to pick up on queenofthemojavewasteland's point about what needs to be done to change the situ. I agree that men need to take responsibility for their actions.

If they can read body language in the Boardroom/gym/supermarket/train station, then they are perfectly capable of doing so in a pub, nightclub or social club. Anyone can get it wrong, but they need to accept responsibility for social gaffes they make and not get defensive, or offensive when a woman doesn't respond as they would like.

As with rape and domestic abuse, I believe all men have a role to play in NOT colluding with other men's unacceptable behaviour towards women. If they see a mate coming onto a woman who's not interested, they should step in and tell the guy he's out of line. They shouldn't laugh along with jokes or anecdotes from guys about how they bullied a woman into submission or had it away with a woman who was too wasted to say no.

Men challenging other men about their behaviour towards women isn't beyond the realms of possibility. My DH does this. I seriously don't get the idea that men are hostages to testosterone so can't be blamed for invading women's boundaries in the pursuit of sex. I accept men are socially conditioned to believe they "should" be like this, but I also believe they have agency, have intelligence, have choice. Regarding men as thick, simple, dick-driven creatures to me is incredibly disrespectful, misandrist and an anathema to feminism, imho.

Yes, let's slag all men off for not being able to read body language. Ever considered that some people may wish you peed off when you talk to them, KRIKRI?, at least sometimes, that is? I do but then I am not arrogant in that I think everybody I speaks to wants to speak to me all of the time.

As for your suggestion that men step in to tell a mate who is chatting up a woman who is not interested (rape and domestic abuse is a different matter), get real. FGS, no man is going to intervene if the only thing his mate is doing is talking. He may intervene if the bloke is being aggressive. In fact, most blokes do intervene, 'Come on now, mate, she doesn't wish to know' they say.
But to intervene when their mate is just talking to the woman is ridiculous.

wamster we have all been discussing instances where we have been approached by a man who doesn't get the hint. If they weren't interested they would not approach us. I think most people here can recognise when people we approach are fed up.

'As for your suggestion that men step in to tell a mate who is chatting up a woman who is not interested (rape and domestic abuse is a different matter), get real. FGS, no man is going to intervene if the only thing his mate is doing is talking. He may intervene if the bloke is being aggressive. In fact, most blokes do intervene, 'Come on now, mate, she doesn't wish to know' they say. But to intervene when their mate is just talking to the woman is ridiculous.' Sadly this is very true, but at least there are some decent men out there who would intervene.

'Ever considered that some people may wish you peed off when you talk to them, KRIKRI?, at least sometimes, that is? I do but then I am not arrogant in that I think everybody I speaks to wants to speak to me all of the time.' Huh? I don't get your point. Are you saying you consider people get 'peed off' with you or that we are all arrogant for not even suggesting a point that you have brought up twice now?

You are the one slagging off men for not being able to read body language Wamster. KRIKRI is saying that they can read body language and they can understand when a woman says they don't want to speak to them.

I asked you way back that if someone said to you that they didn't want to speak to you would you take that very unsubtle hint? As you didn't answer I am going to presume that you would take the hint. In fact I would go so far as to say you would probably take the hint way before any verbal pronunciation by the person you were speaking to was necessary. If we can take the hint why can't these men?

I don't understand where this persistent reference to 'men not being able to read body language' comes from. We are, generally, talking about men who refuse to listen to actual, verbal, language telling them attentions are not welcome. Many of them are space invaders who use proximity as a tacit threat.

queenofthemojavewasteland, you are unbelievably arrogant; has it not occurred to you that a bloke that apporaches you may not be interested in you sexually? Maybe he thinks that you are a nice person and he is lonely looking for somebody to chat to. And when you say, 'I am not interested in you sexually' or words to that effect, he feels a bit hurt and tries to save a bit of face by still talking because he wants to make it clear that he is just after a conversation and nothing else.

And there is nothing 'sadly' about it, it's perfectly reasonable for a man to do nothing if the only thing his mate is doing is talking.
Actually, a man likes to intervene if another man is getting aggressive because it gives him the chance to play the hero.
Anyway, from what you say about your onetime inability to read body language, it is safe to say that quite a few men are probably slagging you off on a similar site as this as we speak.

With respect Wamster, it's coming across as though you are deliberately misunderstanding what others are saying.

Frankly speaking, if a person comes up to me and starts talking, whether their intention is to have sex with me, to sell sign me up with Sky or to kill some time because they are lonely, why is it my responsibility to indulge them, to give them of MY time because it's what THEY want? You seem to be suggesting that women should feel obliged to give their time and attention to men in particular because it's their responsibility to ensure men don't feel upset or rejected.

No one is suggesting that person should be rude to another person for approaching them, whether it's because they want sex, they want a sale or are just bored. What people ARE saying is when encountering men who feel ENTITLED to women's time, attention and quite possibly sex, whether you are friendly, rude, subtle, clear, ignore them or whatever tactic you try, it makes no difference.

Men want to play the hero? C'mon, we're talking real life adult human beings, not comic book characters. Also, do you think folks here care whether men are slagging "us" off on another site? One might be led to question whether your mentioning this may be because you are a member of such a site.

But wamster you have said that nightclubs are only for pulling? why else would he approach? Whether a man is after a sexual relationship or not, if he does not take the first no, he becomes a pest. I may not want a new friend whilst I am enjoying myself. I do not make any assumptions when a man approaches me, it's not the way I think, he could just be asking me to pass him a napkin.

Why does this make me arrogant? Because you are arrogant, rude and unduly hostile (not unlike the men we are discussing) and you feel the need to project this on myself and others who wish to discuss this topic sensibly.

You are clearly not listening to anything I say or anybody else. Prehaps this board is not for you? Your views would certainly be applauded on an MRA board. I will no longer post on this topic, and certainly not in reply to you, until some other person makes a valid point worth discussing.

"Frankly speaking, if a person comes up to me and starts talking, whether their intention is to have sex with me, to sell sign me up with Sky or to kill some time because they are lonely, why is it my responsibility to indulge them, to give them of MY time because it's what THEY want?"

This, exactly!

Well, let us hope that you are never lonely, then, because chances are you may be rejected, too. See how that feels. And if you ever are lonely and others give you the brush off, just don't complain about it.

Are you doing this for a bet, Wamster ?