Some men really hate women being single don't they?

[solidgoldbrass]

inspired by a couple of other threads including the separatism one. Have you ever noticed that if a man you don't like or know or fancy is trying to persuade you to date him or spend time with him or even just talk to him, the only really effective way to make him fuck off is to tell him that you are another man's property. Just saying No, leave me alone, no thanks, actually I am having a conversation with my female friend and am not interested in talking to you, never seems to work until you throw in My Boyfriend or My Husband.

Good point Victor! It's like folks who insist perpetrators of domestic abuse just "lose it" when they attack their partners, but strangely enough, they are usually able to keep their cool and manage fine when interacting with work colleagues, in the shops, at the bus stop, etc. The fact that they target their partners demonstrates that abusive behaviour is a choice.

Likewise, as you say, I'm not convinced the men who can't take no for an answer from a woman are as stupid or socially incompetent as some here suggest. I also don't accept the guff that men are so hormone-driven that the blood flow to the brain stops the minute they clap eyes on a woman. Actually, it's quite patronising to suggest that blokes are so thick they can't "help themselves" and SOOO 1950's to suggest that it's the responsibility of women to moderate men's behaviour, to placate the "savage beast." Bleurgh!

"And, yes, I do think that women who whinge about this should join a convent and become nuns if it offends them that much to be chatted-up. "

None on this thread (as far as I'm aware) has been offended by being chatted up, what they have been offended by is men who will not go away when asked.

Wamster, you are completely and utterly missing the point. It's not that these man are unable to read body language, it's that they think that whatever the woman wants (or 'thnks she wants' as this type of shithead man is likely to say) doesn't matter, because he wants to talk to/interact with her and therefore he is going to do so.
Also, frankly, when I am out on the pull, I still do not want unattractive, boring, creepy men to monopolise my time. It's still up to me to choose who I interact with.

Wamster why do you persist in misunderstanding what everyone is talking about?

Being chatted up is fine. Flirting, eye contact, smiling across the bar, lovely. A bloke who you're not interested in striking up conversation and then leaving it when you make it clear you're not interested - also fine.

A bloke who absolutely will not go away no matter how many times you tell him - NOT FINE. Even if he doesn't put his hand up your skirt or rape you.

KriKri I hadn't thought of that but the DV comparison is much more powerful. It's odd, isn't it, how male behaviour that would be unacceptable in any other arena suddenly becomes something they can't help - and isn't that bad anyway - when it's aimed at women?

But the men obviously do go away, don't they? If people posted here that they had been assaulted, held against their will, kidnapped, then I would agree that that would be a real problem not to be ignored.
The men do go away just not as quickly as desired.

This is why being persistent in chatting-up a woman is NOT a crime, but assault, rape, and kidnap are crimes.

Wamster Seriously, read my post.

The bloke bothering me took months to go away. After following me into toilets to have sex (I don't dare think what would have happened if my friend wasn't there), and trying to write his name on my arm.

No, it's not a crime, but it is also not on!

Wamster not one person here has objected to being chatted up. The objection is when a man doesn't leave after being declined. It's not OK, it really isn't and I can't see why you feel that it is acceptable for a man to continue 'chatting you up' after you have subtly/ unsubtly indicated you are not interest?

What I say now you may take as offensive but I feel it may be relevant, you are within your rights to not answer: Is this a self-esteem thing? Do you feel better receiving the attention from men, even if you don't want it? Why are you prepared to let men ignore your boundries/ personal space/ preferences?

We are not nuns on this thread (apologies to anyone who may be typing from their convent) we just want to enjoy nights out. Your arguements are coming across as a bit childish, which is probably why LRD inquired about your age (apologies to you HDS)

Oh, well that's ok then. If they leave eventually? My right as a human being to not have someone touch me, invade my personal space or continue interacting with me when I have openly told them to cease just doesn't matter, as long as they leave eventually? My right to navigate public spaces as an autonomous being remains intact as long as I'm not violently assaulted? PFFFFT.

And actually, as many women have pointed out in this thread, just as often it's the women leaving, not the men.

You keep talking about nightclubs
You keep talking about crimes
You keep talking about people putting their hands up skirts

All of these are things that you keep banging on about, while no-one else is.

"But the men obviously do go away, don't they?" NO THEY DON'T. YOU TELL THEM TO GO AWAY AND THEY DON'T.

"If people posted here that they had been assaulted, held against their will, kidnapped, then I would agree that that would be a real problem not to be ignored."

Gosh that's big of you.

"The men do go away just not as quickly as desired."

That's right. The woman desires them to go away immediately. Often she tells him so. Sometimes she might listen politely for a while before asking him to to go away. Or attempting to leave herself. He will not allow this. He is relying on her maintaining a level of courtesy which he is not meeting himself. THIS IS NOT FINE.

queenofthemojavewasteland, I am not prepared to let men invade my personal space or boundaries, and I am prepared to tell them to get lost, they usually listen, I don't think they are monsters because they are a bit gauche and fail to take hint straight away, though.

Before you learnt your body language- which I gather is something you had to learn- did you stop to consider how many people you offended by your actions and failure to take the hint? (After all, not everybody we talk to wants to talk to us in return. Do they?)

"and I am prepared to tell them to get lost, they usually listen"

We are talking about men who don't listen.

How difficult is that to understand?

I don't know empusa, it seems quite straightforward to me

Maybe it's an object lesson in what we are talking about. We are all saying one thing, wamster seems to be hearing something completely different!

""You don't like men making a move on you? Don't go out then."

What the actual fuck? "

Because everyone knows the outside world is for men and women are only allowed there on sufferance.

SGB - interesting thread. I hadn't thought of it like that before, but you have a point. In my (much) younger days I often pretended that a platonic male friend was my bf, just to stop someone else from hassling me.

However, I guess 'I am with someone else' implies that your rejection of a man is nothing personal to him. Which is easier to swallow than outright rejection. But then this is pandering to the male ego. A woman should be allowed to reject a man's advances without having to explain why.

I offended more people than I can remember whilst learning how to talk to people and how to interact with people.

As a small child I caused my mum no end of embarrassment by once sitting in a supermarket aisle and refusing to move for hours because a stranger had touched my shoulder when trying to get past.

One time in a night club at the age of 19 I screamed for almost 10 mins because someone had touched me on the chest, bouncers threatened to remove me and my friends from the club because I was causing a scene, to this day I am mortified that I almost ruined their night.

I was once thrown out of a shop for using a curse word that I had been assured was not a 'bad word' by a relative who had just wanted me to not tell on them for saying it infront of me.

I could go on forever. I'm not perfect and I accept that no one is, but the difference between me and the man who won't get the hint is I learnt from my behaviour

When all is said and done, it is what people do that matters not what they say. So what if a bloke is a bit persistent in talking to you? As long as his actions do not step over the mark, who cares?
If his actions result in inappropriate touching, assault or kidnap then obviously this is a breach and should be reported to the police for the crimes that they are, but talking to you? Just talking? Why not just say, 'You have every right to talk, but I don't have to listen' and move off?
You don't own the space that he is standing there talking in, do you?

If he then follows you, say that you fear he is stalking you and say calmly that you will ring the police if he persists. If he does not, then you start to worry-and rightly so, because then he is doing something and not just talking.

"Why not just say, 'You have every right to talk, but I don't have to listen' and move off?"

Because they follow.

Seriously?

Have you ever had a conversation with a persistent man in the pub? If you tell him you are going to call the police, he will either laugh in your face or become aggressive.

Something tells me that you have never actually been in this frankly often rather tricky/annoying/intimidating situation.

So your suggestion is to provoke then into doing something worse than just talking?

Erm that's sensible.

I also wonder what sort of response the police will give if you ring them up and say you are in a pub and a bloke is trying to talk to you and won't go away. clue more laughter

Your suggestions are a bit crap, frankly.

So suggesting that calmly saying, 'You have every right to talk, but I don't have to listen' is a crap suggestion then, is it? So what else do you suggest, then? Kicking him in the balls -and risk being done for assault yourself, or standing there like a dummy smiling?