I have a question about attitudes to lesbianism

[TheRealMBJ]

Prompted by skim reading the very interesting separatist thread, it just occurred to me that lesbianism is still very much demonised in society. The media and individuals who are very supportive of gay-rights seem to sneer at lesbians. I don't quite get it.

Surely if it is accepted that homosexuality is normal it should be the same for men and women?

SAF, I've heard of this bizare concept before, but never in a serious like. It's a rediculous excuse. Everyone I know what be just as annoyed as other types of sexual relations. (This is reminding me of the Bill Clinton arguement years ago - "I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" Does everyone remember that? And no one believed that wasn't cheating.)

Anyway, yes, the idea of penetrative sex being "full" sex is prevelant in our society, I agree. Think of the "bases" system that people joked about in college (And that was the girls who did this more than boys) where a "home run" was full pentration.

I said before on another thread, the 'full sex' thing is about reproduction (women's true purpose) which involves sperm, which involves male orgasm. But piv sex doesn't make most women come (I think 25% ish?) So it's v. male centred, and the thing about gay men/bum sex is true, SaF, I agree.

I am aware of people talking about lesbiansas if they are a little 'feeble', as if they haven't quite realised that they aren't having real sex and that if/when they did they would possibly change. Why would anyone reject PIV unless they weren't thinking 'right'? It's another example of female mental deficiency!

I cannot believe some of the crap lesbians face, some of which is from women who usually mention their repulsion at the idea of giving a woman oral sex.

Oh, Floy! How could you be so crude? they don't do that, do they?

Sorry, Alice.

Yes, it bloody is, SaF. I kind of think this is the ultimate expression of gender inequality really; the fact it's unquestioned by most 'progressives' just emphasises that.

SAF -yes, and also that same-sex sex (sorry) is seen as lesser, despite the fact that logically it might seem that it has a greater chance of being mutually satisfying due to a knowledge of how the body works.

Focussing on squirting jam into a doughnut is so reductive.

Floy - Gin, please. At least Blue Nun (chilled). Standards, darling.

I'll have that doughnut.

Without the squirt, I'd hope

MBJ - why, are you offering?

Isn't this why it was illegal to be a homosexual male but not a homosexual female? Because when Queen Victoria was asked to sign the act making it illegal she said "women don't do that". More shocking in Victorian times to be a lesbian than a gay male - in fact, just unheard of.

Is that a total urban myth??? Must google it, I was told that at school and hadn't thought about it til now.

Aha, a myth about queen victoria - but the guy who wrote the act did leave lesbians out of it.

Absolutely SaF

That's why the age of consent for homosexual sex was much higher for years after it had become legal to engage in homosexual sex.

And look how hard Josephine Butler et al had to fight, to get an age of consent enshrined in law at all.

And the way that male rape is viewed as so much worse that 'normal' rape.

Yes if a woman gets raped it's just one of those things, if a man gets raped, it's horrific.

I drove through a pretty crappy area of Bristol the other night and wondered why do we put gay clubs next to brothels and lap dancing? Consenting adults in comparison to exploited....weird.

Have never noticed lesbianism treated any different to any other gay coupling tbh.

It's my experience certainly the case that women are a bit disgusted by the thought of a bisexual boyfriend, but men find the idea of a bisexual women very exciting.

The bisexual men that I've been out with have been very closeted in our social circles, they are afraid to let women know that they fancy men too and it's been a really big deal when they've told me. Whoever said that bi men are seen as being gay but too chicken to do it properly is right, I think. Whereas the boyfriends (and the husband :)) who know that I am bi have been a bit "kerching!" about it. It doesn't seem to threaten them at all, quite the opposite. DH thought that it would greatly increase his chances of a threesome.

I suppose that they couldn't ever really consider that a woman would leave a man for a woman. Why would she, when she has a partner with a penis?

That's interesting bibi yes, like they're not at all worried about it, they're not threatened by your attraction to the same sex.