Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

what i'm noticing about some of the comments, is that we seem to keep envisioning a society where either one sex or the other has the upper hand.

e.g. current patriarchy, v women raising children & men 'circling' hoping for a chance to mate, but with very little influence.

i am interested in the idea of equality - that everyone is shown respect, and able to have a voice, and that the people with power/leadership etc have earnt that.

however, i am genuinely confused about how to do that, and what that society would be like.

Sakura - You're going dump your husband and the father of your children, who you claim to respect, for some half baked piece of wishful thinking?

The whole concept that women are innately better then men is the worst type of fluffy gender stereotyping and that a society run by women would be this wonderous place of justice and peace is a very narrow view of the various power differentials that effect us all.

GotheAnne,

I'm not saying women are better than men.
I'm saying they don't rape, create porn empires off the backs of an exploited class, they don't traffic women and young girls for sex, they tend not to massacre people like that Norwegian guy; they don't settle disputes with wars; they have never raped and massacred entire villages like AMericans in Vietnam. They haven't slaughtered millions of the opposite sex like men did in the witch-crazes just so their religion would be accepted by the masses.
Women have never lobotomized men who didn'T live up to their version of sanity, they have never forced girls to have their clitorises exised to cure masturbation the way the victorians did (FGM in Africa and foot-binding in china was done by mothers because patriarchal men would not marry a woman who had not been mutilated.

Men have done all these things, and worse. And continue to do so.

That's all I'm saying.

"various power differential"

There are no "various power differentials" A woman's race or wealth may protect her from the worst excesses of patriarchy, but her relative "privilege" is derivative. Patriarchies set up class and race antagonizm because it serves the men at the top. A middle class woman can become poor overnight if her husband leaves her. A white eastern european who is being trafficked for sex is no safer than a black middle class woman in america/

Men tell us we should concentrate on cass, race, ethnicity.. intersectionality--- but that is just ways of diluting the women's movement and throwing women off the scent. Sex based oppression is the original oppression. It is the oppression that must be overthrown.

Black women in AMerica learned that votes for black "people" acutally meant votes for black men . Black men abandoned them.

Women of the anarchist movement, women of the communist revolution in Russia, find themselves relegated to making cups of tea in order to support men's "movements"

If you want to see any real change, support feminsim.

kickassangel,
I would love an egalitarian society. That's the aim, of course. BUt patriarchy will have to be overthrown first for that to happen. Otherwize it's just going to be more of the same.

Right, and working class women, women of colour haven't found themselves reduced to similar roles in the women's movement. Please. There is a lot out there about how various women have felt marginalised by feminism. Why do you think Womenism exists? And don't say it is because they aren't clever enough/have been fooled/don't understand.

You're using tired revolutionary rhetoric that has failed for many other sections/movements in the past. Just do action 'x' (in this case overthrow the patriarchy...somehow) and we will all be free and happy! Four legs good, two legs bad!

If you want to divorce your husband because you're unhappy, go ahead. But don't do it for some ill conceived idea of the greater good, or because of some bloggers out there egging you on.

There is a lot, a lot to be said for treating others the way we wish to be treated.

If I knew my husband was secretly planning to leave me (bearing in mind, I love my husband and treat him well) and take my child because he reckoned he loved her more then I could, I was disturbing their bond and I wasn't good enough to live with, I would be devasted and on so many levels. That is not some moral act.

"The whole concept that women are innately better then men is the worst type of fluffy gender stereotyping"

Sorry, I missed that bit. Where's that?

I don't think Sakura said she was plotting to remove her children from her husband did she? She clearly said something about co-operating with him to raise their children and separatism being the ultimate aim for her. I seem to have interpreted that differently from you, GothAnne

Which is precisely why those sanctions exist SaF - to ensure that women like you toe the line more often than not.

And women like all of us of course - most of us toe the line because it's just so exhausting not to

Although I haven't toed the line for years and it upsets and unsettles people
I keep getting asked if I wouldn't like to "find" someone

Like there are these gorgeous intelligent egalitarian men hiding all over the place and I just haven't been energetic enough to go and find them...

SaF, that is very sad to read - I'm so angry on your behalf that you are made to feel like this!

(thank fuck, sakura, that you've said what i've also said on this thread: we're not saying women are all so perfect that a separatist life would be unicorns made of rainbows- we're saying there'd be less-to-no rape, violence, and harrassment. But apparently stating that as a fact is a massive attack on ALL MEN EVERYWHERE OMGZWHATABOUTTEHMENZ!21) For fuck's sake. It's because I care about the men that I tell the truth about what patriarchy makes them.

OOoh, isn't it awful that I read this thread but what prompted me to comment was the idea of saf maybe having another baby? I am clearly baby-on-the-brain broody at the moment!

They would be wrong though SAF...you know what right for you and your family...and if it is another baby, then do it.(sorry to be directive!)..

There are also those on this forum who'd love to call anyone who did so an idiot, though, SaF.