Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

I know Posie, that one is difficult for me to. BUt, honestly, when I look at all the wars and rapes and massacres and mutilations etc that men carry out in this world every single day, not to mention the run-of-the-mill sadism, such as doctors operating on women unecessarily, or women being sneered at, Domestic violence etc. Add to that all the MAN=MADE famines such as the one in Somalia (which can be traced back to politics and the grossly inefficient male-led global food system)

To me, men missing out on raising their kids is a small price to pay for ejecting men from their positions of power.

Maybe, after the revolution when it's certain that a patriarchy can never come back, perhaps men can be allowed back into the fold?

But I read somewhere that it's always the nerdy, dweeby men who are most against women's liberation because, given the choice, women would refuse to have sex with them. We're talking about the kind of men no woman would choose to go into labour for. Men know that if patriarchy falls men will be competing against men for women, which is as it should be

"opted to co operate"

well yes, that part was a bit tongue in cheek, sorry.
Yes, my children love their father, they do... but but, as I said, this is difficult for me to talk about.

ANd I do actually like men, I like their company, like spending time with them. Most of them are allright when they're on their own. IT's just that men-as-a-group are a GIANT PAIN IN THE ARSE

Many of my Dh's flaws do fit the patriarchal corruption of the soul, but it's not something set ion stone and as I slowly pick it apart and remould we're getting better. I am hoping that my sons benefit from having very open parents, with shit loads of discipline and where nothing goes unchallenged whether it's homophobia or sexism....that goes for dd too. She wants to be an astronaut right now!! But the boys are also told that it wouldn't be terrible if they wanted to SAHP. They are already pretty conscious of boys/girls toys and comment a lot about the injustice. DD is rather 'girly' (wince) but then so am I!!

I love sex far too much to live without men and it has to be DH because after four c sections I'm not sure I'd wish that body upon another living soul, and he is part of the reason for the damage in the first place.

"but if you, with the strong beliefs you have about all this, are not prepared to sacrifice getting/staying/being married then how on earth do you think anyone else would be persuaded"

Okay, I'll say it.

I have my sights set on separatism.

sakura....you don't have to answer but I'm sure one of your beautiful offspring was male. Don't you have hopes for him?

LOL, it's okay. It's just a big fat shame all round that men can't behave themselves. Even if a husband is the nicest man in the world, he still benefits from male privilege. He is still a member of the dominant, powerful class, and what upsets me most is that all men have the power of their class at their disposal^, whereas women don't. So there is no chance of an equal relationship.
A good example of the problem is if a man reckons he's carried out 50% of the child-rearing because he read his kids a book twice a week, the courts are likely to give him the benefit of the doubt, and hand him custody, even if he has a history of abuse. I have seen cases like this. The power that men have, as a class, compared to women, is incredible.

I have the opposing view. I know women who have left without forwarding addresses and then swoop back in and take their children, although wife beaters are still given access to their children.....HOW?

posie, yes I have a dear little son. But I don't want him to live in a patriarchy either. Patriarchies are horrible for sweet, gentle males. If you raise men to be kind and gentle, I mean really gentle, they probably won't survive high-school. THey'd get beaten up for being sissies.

I'm still going to raise him to be gentle though! I'm just saying, patriarchies are awful.

I have gentle girl loving boys, it is tough. A teacher once said when my DSs trousers were pulled down in the playground 'if you're going to mess around best not with a boy with three older brothers' I replied that either he takes it seriously and sorts the little shit out, or I would.

sakura, this is really interesting - it's very good of you to share this stuff.

I just wanted to add to SaF's post about what this thread is about - something that struck me a lot was people saying that there are actually lots of male-only spaces, and they don't seem to receive the same mockery and/or marginalization as women-only spaces. This is important to me.

Male only spaces aren't mocked because it's for them. Lots of male only events too...wetting the baby's head, or as I call it 'if you think you're going out and leave me with a newborn, your newborn, you can wet the baby's head and fuck off'. I live in a pretty MC area and this still happens, men are congratulated and commiserated for their new baby.

Men's only spaces generally support the myths than women don't like sport or that men are sexually visual creatures. Men's clubs are full of old dicks aren't they?

Yeah, I think that's true about male-only spaces propping up anti-women myths. The one that really bugs me though is that if you look at all sorts of old buildings that used to be men-only, there are often more men's toilets and they're often closer to important areas. I know it's 'just' a practical issue but I always find that quite revealing! Esp. as there, the stereotype is that women spend longer in the loo.

Are you okay sakura? I know that your circumstances are pretty unique so anytime you need to talk you can always DM me/someone or namechange.

Men having as many cubicles as well as urinals is a general source of annoyance!!

yes, I'm fine thanks Posie Just having trouble with all this feminist re-awakening The personal really is political as that old adage goes.

SaF, I have spewed in the past, but the troll called sunny (or snowflake) trawled my posts from 3 years ago and USED THE INFORMATION AGAINST ME in an argument. I reported it to MNHQ and they did nothing because the trolling was done in such a subtle (and quite clever) way, that his/her? posts appeared innocuous. That did put me off mumsnet for a while.

I think how is a perfect time to discuss transexualism and why it's important not to allow eunuchs or men with intact penises into women's spaces, even if the British government has given them a female birth certificate.

BAHAHAHAHA. ONly joking. I am NOT talking about this.

Thanks for the offer of a shoulder though Posie. I will bear that in mind.

Ah, see, this is sisterhood for you. In the words of sparky "don't let the fuckers bring you down"

Thanks you too, SaF

Oh and SaF.. no don't worry, you don't spew. I've met Posie IRL so that's how she knows a bit about my circumstances!

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you can raise a child with your aspirations but they too have choice and personality of the adult they will ultimately become.

none of us have complete unilateral control over our children or how they will develop or grow,and certainly not when you factor in individuality and transition from child to adult, schooling,peer groups, and experiential learning