Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

you see thats riposte. retreating not valid,well thats one approach.but not definitive and most definitely subjective. however mn is composed of individuals so opine away.just dont expect me to concur

I don't expect you to concur. I do expect however that you make your arguments based on something more than your imagination.

I think they show exactly the same level of coherence they always do

SM, do you genuinely believe that posting that the holocaust didn't happen, would be as valid a view, as posting that the holocaust did happen? Are the two views to be treated as perfectly equal?

I don't think you really think that, do you? Not even at your most contrary and pointless.

"I totally disagree that Rebekah Brooks hair would benefit from straighteners. That's a really strongly held POV. I don't care that no-one on this thread has asserted anything about straighteners, I'm determined to assert my POV."

[Grin] [Grin] [Grin]

Oh Dear Goddess

"But we're not managing dysfunction. Separatism seems to have had its heyday in the 70s and 80s. All the writing I've read about male violence was true then, and it's true now. This suggests that society is not managing its broadest dysfunctions."

So true!!

is that lame putdown?
try harder

havent a clue what youre alluding to
no likey?well thats the rub
and

.

hell that nailed it
definitive
.

Oh FFS anyone trying to claim that a women's prison is an example of what a women's separatist community would turn into...
EPIC FAIL. Go back to the interweb, do some research and switch your fucking brains on.
People in prison are mostly bad people. That's why they're in prison.

(Let's not, right now, get into the discussion about the disproportionate number of women imprisoned for minor crimes like cheque fraud and unpaid tv licenses...)

So a women's prison community is going to have a more immediate issue of dealing with dishonest and violent people than a self-selected separtist community. Is that really really difficult to understand?
(If it is difficult to underestand then please switch off your computer. Someone will be round shortly to look after you and change your nappy.)

AAAAANYWAY: Anyone else noticed how difficult it is to be a woman socialising with other women in public? I have had quite a lot of evenings out with female friends that have been repeatedly interrupted by men in a way that mixed sex groups would not be. I've had men barge up to the table my friend and I were sitting and chatting at and demand to know if we were 'with' anyone. (I usually used to shout at the top of my voice 'We're with the woolwich!' and clap.) When I'm out on my own I have had people come up and demand to know who I'm 'with'. I find it a strange question. Why should I have to be with anyone, anywhere?

regularly go out with female only,we get no beef
not even a look

sgb I've been walking around with two or three female friends and men have approached us with "you ladies alone?" -
NO, dickheads, there are THREE of us here. But we're not with a man (eg a legit real human) and so we're alone.

ugh.

Wonder why the very thought of separatism is so threatening to some women. Can understand why the menz don't like the idea, of course. God, I remember how exhilarating the consciousness-raising groups were in the 70s. You know, women were actually listening to each other and sharing experiences - how subversive! And no men bulldozing their way into the conversations to tell we'd got it all wrong and shouldn't we be at home scrubbing the floor or something? How could we be so SELFISH!
The fact that so few women ever found it possible to live completely separately just indicates how damn difficult it was/is. Not many of us would consider cutting fathers, brothers or sons out of our lives. And then there were all the practical problems - back in the 70s I had to get my father to act as guarantor so that I could rent a TV, for example. I was in my early thirties at the time...

I would have thought the Patriarchy would encourage groups of Radfems to live as separtists, they wouldn't be much influence if they are isolated.

I think if it was tolerated, then they wouldn't have to be as isolated and could then spread the Separatist Contagion onto other women, IYSWIM? The radical lesbian commune mentioned above is pretty isolated, because they wanted to feel safe and because their actions weren't tolerated by society at large - even know the article describes that they seem to keep who they are and where they're from pretty quiet when they head into the local town.

Better to keep them within the system - it's harder to effect change that way.

SCGB - given that men in our society are expected to proactive when it comes to finding a partner (whereas women are allowed to be passive) it seems a bit harsh to criticise them for approaching women and trying to find out if they are in a relationship ("are you with anyone?").

The guys who "barge" up to you might sometimes prefer to sit at a table all night flicking their hair and waiting to be approached by a single woman offering to buy them a drink, but until the world changes I'm afraid if they want to find a mate they will feel compelled to try their luck.

I think feminist separatism is a great idea. In fact I'd be quite happy to organise a whip-round down the pub to help pay for the plane fares.

There are gay/lesbian commiunities round the world where gay/lesbian people have congregated partly because they want to be with people who have a similar lifestyle, partly for safety away from homophobia and partly because they want to be more open about their sexuality. This to me seems to me to be largely the kind of thinking and sentiment that is behind this thread.

Sitges just outside Barcelona is one such community. It isn't closed to heterosexual people (me and DW lived there for several months) but it seems to me that women who dont want a relationship with a man could quite happily go and live there or similar place. No problem - we enjoyed living there.

Where I would draw the line though is proposing a fragmentation of society where gay/lesbioan people segregate themselves, actively prevent access by heterosexuals to a specific geographic areas and actively choose to use businesses run by gay/lesbian people.

If heterosexual people were suggesting that they planned to exclude gay/lesbian people from their town and avoid using businesses that employed or were run by gay/lesbian people then there would rightly be outrage. It would be illegal.

Now insert the word 'women' in place of the words 'gay/lesbian' and 'men' in place of 'heterosexual' in what I said above and you see why I object to exclusive communes of any kind. I'd say the same about exclusive religious or racial communes. Fragmentation and segregation in society is bad thing whether by chloice or because someone is forced into it.

Incidentally, I saw a lot of 'mating' behaviour in the clubs and bars of Sitges.