Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

It's only understandable if prejudice is an understandable consequence of experience. The BNP supporter living on a sink estate with predominantly Muslim family who feels displaced and forgotten by society..... Yet I'm pretty sure noone thinks that's understandable.

Can anyone tell me the point of theoretical prejudice? I am failing to see how separatism is feminist, Noone has convinced me that it is. It serves nothing toward the movement neither on a personal or wide scale. It may be right for the individual, but it doesn't make it feminist.

Preference I cam live with, if you have no sons, but the drive for some is distrust or dislike of men. Anyway unless you don't buy food, flush a toilet you can escape the patriarchy. Best to change it from within. Still have to assert separatism is just that, and not anything to do with feminism.

If we assume that the current system depends on women's unpaid domestic labour, caring for men and children to provide labour power in paid employment, then withdrawal of that labour would have a significant impact. That would be a political act, not a matter of personal tasre, even if both things coincided. The motivation and organisation would be political.

SAF, have to say my posts are not directed at you. So I couldn't reallygive a shit whether or not you repeat yourself. I find your manner, and self appointed expertise, rather dull.

Alice. But that would only happen if everyone did it, which they wouldn't.

Lenin I know you have sons. You are not separatist.

I'm not sure how fretting about discrimination against men is feminist? But some people like to fall back on an intellectually lazy position that feminism means 'equality' (not ending oppression to get equality) and therefore that all strands of feminist thought have to actively incorporate equality between men and women within them. That means that you don't have to seriously consider how your engagement with men on a day-to-day basis, within and outwith your family and friendships is impacted by a patriarchal society. You can just criticise those who try and engage with that idea and find ways forward for themselve, claiming that they are no better than men who oppress women (which only works as an argument if you disregard how power functions in society).

Heaven forbid that any feminist thinking might involve prioritising women in order to end their oppression, cos it's all about equality (especially for men), isn't it? And that can be achieved without challenging assumptions about female-male relationships in ways that might be uncomfortable and which you can reject for yourself.

ok, i haven't read this all, BUT
if the idea of separation, is to make men realise how much women do, and then to start to value them, why are we discussing women raising children?
haven't feminists seen that as one of the main stumbling blocks towards equality? that someone needs to look after children, and women tend to do it, which impacts on their ability to work, and makes them reliant upon a man.

well, could women separate from men in such a way that they only meet with men for mating, then they care for the child for the first year, after which the men have to raise them?

this is, of course, only a theory, not in the least bit practical, but you would end up with 2 societies - one where women have to allow for maternity leave and raising a baby, the other where men have to structure their society to allow for child rearing. i wonder which one would end up being the more profitable? if both groups were able to trade, then would the society where profit is affected by maternity cover suffer economically, or the one where childcare had to be accounted for?

i strongly suspect that the women's society would be more profitable, if all other variables were equal. which kind of shows how much society, (both small scale families, and larger, country-wide societies) benefit from the free labour of women.

thankyou for this thread Victor.
as ive said-im semi separetist but im now very interested in exploring seperatism.

Precisely, both floyjoy and kickassangel - interesting theory, I suspect you are right. I have nothing to add as I agree with both posts so completely.

You only have to look at the Child Support thread to see how automatically people take women's free labour for granted and get quite outraged at the notion that fathers or even the tax payer should pay (pretty small figures )for this labour.

The most interesting aspect of this thread for me is the discussion of how aspects of separatism can be used positively by women.

I am not fretting about discrimination and think positive discrimination is a powerful tool. However I am uncomfortable with 'feminism' being comfortable with prejudice. It's the thing that I most battle/defend about the movement when people spout their loathing of feminists. Again this section has been a let down.

SAF complete rubbish, you can't expect to patronize and belittle me without me getting riled, that's sort of the point isn't it?

And if you want to be a female separatist perhaps don't have children.

Yes saf.