Separatist Feminism

[VictorGollancz]

Ok, I really am really very late for work at this point but I thought it might be nice to have a space in which we can discuss separatist feminism. I've read a lot of advocates of it, and even incorporate some elements of it into my own life - I prefer not to live with men, for example - but I don't practise it totally and I can't find any examples of any separatist communes.

Does anyone know anything more about it? Does anyone live in a separatist way?

Surprisingly good Wiki link here

Ooh, that makes perfect sense. If you ever fancy going back into education in a non-teaching role, I reckon there's a PHD in that.

Again though I think if society became less gendered and the stupid stereotypes weren't so powerful, more men would be comfortable talking in the same way that is seen as traditionally female, and therefore the potential for male/female friendships would increase.

Interestingly, the three males I have friendship with are known for being in touch with their feelings. Which completely backs up what you've said doesn't it.

ha ha ha ha-excellent post SCGB!
hmmm-terriffic new word-mundanes-oh ill have to think on this one-might replace a lot of other words for me!
very interesting thought[.......on the same side and..................for the same reason.......]
actually SCGB-youre a bloody genuis and im about to go to bed with a smile on my face-thankyou!

Mens friendships are a bit more complex than what many of you think and they are also a little different, they might not be the same as what you see in women's friendships but they certainly aren't any lesser.

Why there is often something in men-womens relationships is often a man would approach a woman (they like her already) in the hope she will like them too, they will hang around for a while but once they realise it's a one way thing it is better to stop, both involved are obviously looking for something different, this scenario happens both ways.

I would be surprised if more men feel comfortable being emotionally honest with women than they are with men.

The way men often talk about problems is different and the advice given is often matter of fact.

Sometimes it's better to give silent support where your friends know about your problem but actively ignore it, because they know you would prefer it that way. Another support technique is through humour.

In my experience men who are totally closed off emotionally are even more so with women this is because they feel awkward trying to communicate their problems in the way 'women want', or because they feel they would look 'weak' to the woman.

There are many threads on MN with women talking about how their partners don't really like to talk about problems with them.

I rant a lot about mundanes and both mundanes and non-mundanes get upset and shit their pants and scream. FWIW it's not just being heteromonogamous that makes you a mundane. It's being heteromonogamous, consumerist and so conformist that you explode at the mere idea of there being people who are Not Like YOU and constantly agitiate for Something To Be Done to make people stop being not like you.

It's probably not necessarily all that comforting to say well, they are knobs then.
But maybe it could be.
And they are knobs.

saf that is bloody fascinating. I've always been lucky to have very close male friendships (brothers, lots of male friends at school, male flatmates at uni, etc) and made my close female friends in my twenties rather than my teens (my girlfriends are ACE!). But these men are ones who were considered notably 'in touch with their feelings' etc - and so I have stayed friends with them despite them getting married, etc. I think the burden on wives to BE their husband's emotional everything is way too much - and possibly why women tend to have strong friendship networks - they need the support!

This is a fascinating thread: thank you all. I have nothing wise to say, but just wanted to express my interest. thanks again.

Conversely, I found this thread and the views expressed of men highly insulting.

"we should be locked up in battery farms." ha ha.

Plus a large part of the expressed premise is largely 6-year-old thinking: "they'll miss me when I'm gone." Egads, if this is the forefront of feminist thinking, it needs better thought leaders.

I don't find this thread insulting to men, in a liberal society people can do what they want and live how they want, as long as it's legal

Somehow I have a great memory for posts......Riven you did have a male PA for your daughter. Why lie? [confuse]

Choosing to live away with women is very different than choosing to live apart from men. I accept that women only places must represent and feel empowering, but this idea that all men are bad is pretty disgusting. Most people find the idea of a child growing up without a father not ideal, that's why poeple object to 'single mothers' through choice, not circumstance.

I think this thread has actually, been a wonderful demonstration of Why the Feminists Don't Hate Men. Here's a bunch of feminist women, who know all the stats and the violence and deaths caused by men-as-a-group to women-as-a-group, and who STILL (me included) describe relationships and encounters with men that make us hopeful and are good for both sides.

Even when it's been a bit less positive (like SAF and Sunshine's exchange about platonic-not-really-being-platonic-at-all), there's still a very strong message of wanting to engage with men.

Even Anon's experiences (don't want to put words in your mouth, sorry if I am) have been done to her. And I don't get any sense of fear or hatred from her posts, just defiance. Good on you, I say! Anon, I shall certainly carry your words forward with me.

And Crapola, if you can read this thread and find that dominant message as a whole is 'all men are bad', then frankly you're doing it wrong.

All head tilting nonsense, imo. The overwhelming denial of children to know decent male role models.

What utter bollocks. What utter, total, complete bollocks.

I don't even know why I'm bothering because you clearly haven't read the thread, the thread in which: no online evidence can be found of any separatist communities that have any children in them at all, male or female; the total sum of boy children in separatist environments in the thread - on a feminist board on one of the biggest forums in the UK - is one small visitor to a women's retreat and a woman who was informed that if her intended pregnancy resulted in a boy, she wouldn't be able to live there. So that's one visitor, and one potentially in utero child.

OVERWHELMINGLY, there are women on this thread who, over and over again, say 'separatism - interesting idea, but not for me because of my male relationships, my vigorous sex with men and my beloved sons'. All of which you have ignored with aplomb. Well done.

Get as angry as you like about whatever you like: but you're getting angry about a male child, and a set of women denying that child male role models, and the likelihood is that they don't actually exist.

Strawmanning taken to the expert level. Bravo.

Perhaps you need to read the near separatist posts then.

What a polite response CdV. I'd hate to see this interesting thread disintegrate into a slanging match, like so many others have.

What, the ones in which women have been forced into separatist lifestyles because of life-threatening violence? Or the ones in which the single mothers have been left to get on with it by fathers who have left and have gradually found themselves in a near all-woman environment because generally, most lone parents are women? Or the ones in which women just, y'know, choose not to socialise not with men outside their family group?

Those ones?

Still can't find any active denial of male role models.