To all those who say on threads 'I am too scared to go into feminism' - this topic isn't scary!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

I think it's a shame when I see threads where the OP says 'I am too scared to put this in feminism' or something.

I am certainly not knowledgeable about feminist theory, but have never felt that my opinion on this thread wasn't wanted or I was vilified for stating what I believed.

I think this topic is pretty inclusive - yes some people are forthright with their opinions, but nobody's word is god, and I would hate to think that mumsnetters were put off contributing to threads in this topic because they mistakenly think the posters on here are viragos.

TheSecondComing - that thread illustrates your first point (or rather is the opposite) in that a lot of posters on there were inavlidating her response and her feelings about the rape. It wasn't the feminists doing that.

I am tempted to say if you're not a feminist and you don't like this board why on earth post here?

I'm not sure Crapola, what would count as anti-feminist? This is an honest question, do you mean I've criticised feminists themselves or feminism in general? I've asked questions about aspects of feminism as I don't understand it all but I don't think I've ever attacked it as such.

Amazing how perceptions can differ so massively isn't it

Proles - I think that therein lies the nub.

MN is full of posts that care more about how clever they sound than what advice they give or who they are giving it too, it's not just the feminist board.

but Crapola, surely, with the (justifiable or not) reputation this section has, it's more noticable to us less intellectual posters? it's not a 'pop' or a fighting point, to me, it's fact.

(am now very aware am probably making sweeping generalisations )

"those nasty bitch face feminists"

Naebody said that, I call straw (wo)man.

People are actually making some valid and considered points on this thread, might be better to address them? After all, the more women that feel themselves able to identify with feminism the more likely it is that a real change can be made. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar and all that stuff.

Oh give over TSC. We have had a lot of shit over the last week or so. We are only human and people get tired of it.

I'm just homing in on one thing, but it matters to me.

I am not remotely clued up on intellectual feminism and I regularly get told to go away and read more. So I don't think I'm one of the 'intellectual' posters referred to. But ... I really think it is crappy to object to this section being 'too intellectual'. Some people here post long, involved posts that refer to complicated ideas; some don't. No-one should feel they have to dumb down. No-one says that MN as a whole is just 'too intellectual'. In fact one of the things that people regularly say in favour of MN is that it there is a good level of intelligent debate.

Lord forbid anyone should feel they have to be learned and write long essay-posts in order to fit in round here - god knows, I can't. But I am really sick of people knocking this section on these grounds. Some people here are very into the intellectual side and if they can't talk about it freely here, where can they?

In the feminist fight I guess this sort of criticism is to be expected. I am a regular here, in one guise or another and I feel enlightened and frankly delighted to have found it.

I'm a feminist and I don't much like the Mumsnet feminism/women's rights section. I understand I am not the first person to have said this (or am I not SAF, just checking???) - does it give any of you regulars pause for thought - or do you prefer to think that I am just plain wrong?

Just had some rambly thought regarding the book thing, perhaps it's hard because some people are trying to have a conversation at a more knowledgeable level? (I mean 'more knowledgeable' in the most totally neutral sense - they've just read more. Not they are better, you are thickos - but just that they have read more.)
I can see how book recommendations can seem sneery but as far as I've seen they have been not only well intentioned but eager to involve people. When everyone has read, for example, Delusions of Gender or The Equality Illusion and are discussion something in the light of their reading about neurosexism or whatever, stopping the conversation to explain things at starter level (often called 'doing 101 work') - stops the conversation. It might get you better responses to start a new thread asking a question or initiating a debate about what you want to talk about.

Analogy: imagine that in the Politics section there's a thread on the Teacher's strikes and whether or not this is a useful moment for collective action. The assumption is that everyone thinks unions are good but there's a disagreement on this particular strike. Now imagine someone comes in and (1) asks what a union is and insists everyone stops what they are doing to give a complete history of organised labour OR (2) misrepresents how unions work OR (3) says that there is no need for unions nowadays and people who are in unions should get a life/sense of humour/ shag.

All of these comments derail the conversation. Whether or not the person making the comment intended to do so.

Now to compound that fact, this section has regularly been invaded by trolls who hate, hate, hate any whiff of feminism and want desperately to derail any conversation. Which makes regulars rather trigger happy when it comes to dismissing derailing posts.

But a feminist movement that contains theory surely is going to be a bit intellectual? I'm certainly not intellectual (patently obvious) and enjoy it here,.

perhaps it is a bit shitty to give that as the sole excuse LRD but, if that's how a woman feels after a lifetime of oppression, that she is worth not much more than a few simple words, how can the likes of me get back into feminism?

it think it's an interesting debate to have, how to make feminism INclusive?

bibbity, why should it give me pause more than you? You're one feminist who doesn't care for bits of the section; I'm another who likes some bits and gets pissed off on occasion at others. So?

Perhaps start a thread Ironing.

In my own life, day to day, feminism is merely a goal. I make/accept decisions all the time that are not feminist....maybe that would be a good start, as a topic. Squaring my actual life with my ideals?

I think Bibs was more asking whether any of the regs were going to give thought to her reasons or just think her wrong, lrd.