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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Apparently women can't be doctors...

117 replies

springboksaplenty · 08/07/2011 09:41

Ok this is my first post on feminism and it is really just a rant. I have just finished a fourth night shift and am feeling quite a bit ranty.

Apparently, no matter how many times I introduce myself to people, using my title I am constantly referred to as 'nurse'. I don't have a problem with nurses it's just that that is not my job - as I said a number of times. Now this isn't the elderly who I can understand where they're coming from. But men - and women - who are 20-40 yrs old. I have admitted, diagnosed and treated and even operated on people, who have then turned round on ward round and claim they haven't seen a doctor all night. It is driving me crazy. I wear my badge around my neck with Dr on it (haven't changed it to the surgical ms. For this very reason). I even had a male nurse come in with me to chaperone and the patient looked to him to answer his questions. He was mid 30s.

And to top my night off, and what has sent me into this outraged rant, is that a male colleague (different specialty) turned up on my ward after having to be practically dragged there by continued calls by nursing staff, only to say to Sister 'don't worry dear it's fine'. Dear?! Who the fuck do you think you are? It's not fine you patronising shit do your bloody job and see to your patient.

And breathe...

OP posts:

PenelopePitstops · 08/07/2011 13:51

I feel for you, I am a teacher who looks very young and constantly get questioned!

I have to be honest though, when i hospital with my grandad I did refer to a female doctor as a nurse, without thinking. I corrected myself though and felt terrible for the rest of the day about it. Sometimes people may just not think.

GetOrfMoiLand · 08/07/2011 13:51

dorje you sound exactly like me. Cow pretty much sums up my work persona.

opus a UAV is a unmanned plane.

Original poster

springboksaplenty · 08/07/2011 14:00

Having just woken from a few hours sleep so apologies for the delay in responding.

I don't think I could ever been described as nonassertive. I have a fairly confident manner, I'm not a chatty giggly woman in any regards and certainly not to patients. I am early thirties and perhaps do look young for my age - I do not wear make up at all for work as find it horrible when having to wear a mask for large swathes of my day. My attire is 90% of the time surgical scrubs +/- black stethoscope and if not, trousers and blouse with flat shoes (dear god no trainers!). Jacket is most definitely a no-no for pt contact.

What I find hard to understand is not the initial misconception, but the complete inability of some people to change their impression despite my correcting them. I will discuss and explain operation details with patients and yet still will be referred to as nurse.

At a point I don't think that I should have to become more stereotypically male in order to satisfy my patients prejudices. More what amazed me was that in this day and age young patients continue to have this sexist view of what gender a doctor is, which is despite the fact that currently over 50% of medical students are female.

Oh and for consultants making comments, on my return from maternity leave after six months, the first thing a young (female) consultant said was that "oh gosh but he's too young, you should be at home".

OP posts:

DirtyMartini · 08/07/2011 14:01

I would, and do, use the word "whiny" about men and women if it's the right word. I have used it in various work-based rants at home when I was offloading to DP about whiny people. (I do hate whining and there were big whiners of each sex at my last job)

I don't think I've really ever called anyone simpering, but I reserve the right to do so if they are simpering and I feel like pointing this out

I do see what you mean though HandDived, in that those words are used more about women, and many people use them in a sexist way. I don't think that means they are inherently sexist words though, or that anyone who uses them is automatically sexist. Context is everything, surely?

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 08/07/2011 14:03

"Context is everything, surely?" I agree.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 08/07/2011 14:10

And yes like you I have used whiny directed at a man (and never used simpering). Those words just seemed unjustified in the context in which they were used up thread.

OP "At a point I don't think that I should have to become more stereotypically male in order to satisfy my patients prejudices." Absolutely. It sounds to me that you are looking the part, being the part - people just don't want to see it. That is their problem and it is their attitudes that need changing (not that that helps you!). I am not sure what else you can do about it other than keep correcting them and bringing them up on it when they are being arses thoughtless.

DirtyMartini · 08/07/2011 14:13

agree HandDived.

ohanotherone · 08/07/2011 14:27

Springboksaplenty

Most of the patients you see are in a state, confused, in an unfamiliar environment, perhaps exhausted etc... they are not really thinking about you and what you are but are thinking about themselves. They may have seen so many other people that they don't know whether they are coming or going. They may not be able to see your badge. As you get older, people will stop calling you darling, babs, or whatever, embrace your youth. Introduce yourself loudly and clearly and always shake their hand if possible. My name is Dr. Springboks and I'm am ++state Grade here+++ to see you about X.....

I was shocked at the number of professionals I saw on the maternity ward who didn't bother to tell me their name or grade it was very poor.

ohanotherone · 08/07/2011 14:30

Ps, there is nothing wrong with being briefly chatty to patients, building a warm relationship builds trust and confidence and a highly useful tool in healthcare I would suggest.

HeavyHeidi · 08/07/2011 14:54

GetOrf and LilBB, I'm in aerospace too, it is such boys club, isn't it?

It is amazing that being a female doctor is such a problem. Not much to do but keep correcting them, hopefully the next female doctor they see will have it easier. And it gets better when you get older, I haven't been asked to get coffee or take minutes for quite a while now.

Ah yes the good old "why did you have kids in the first place if you don't want to take care of them??" comments. Whenever I hear them I point out that by the way, manager x or director y (male) has a 2 month old baby at home, have you asked him the same question?

GetOrfMoiLand · 08/07/2011 15:05

I went back to work when dd was 3 months old (this was ages ago when the maternity leave allowance was 18 weeks).

I have said that if I had another child I would go back at the same time. To fits of the vapours from others

I don't work in aerospace any more, I work in particle physics research, and the lack of stupid boy behaviour is a revelation. I still miss the planes though

MoreBeta · 08/07/2011 15:09

springbok - look carefully at what your male colleagues wear when they meet patients. Look carefully at what any senior female consultants wear. Look carefully at what the female nurses wear.

Think carefully about visual clues. The last female consultant I met was wearing a smart business suit. You sound like you are wearing the sort of thing a theatre nurse might wear.

GetOrfMoiLand · 08/07/2011 15:11

They should bring back the white coats.

bruxeur · 08/07/2011 15:14

wtf?

bruxeur · 08/07/2011 15:17

That was to Beta. Trousers and blouse and flats = work attire for female doctors. If the last time you saw a female consultant she was wearing a suit, then it was a while ago. If you haven't heard about "bare below the elbows" then !

theDudesmummy · 08/07/2011 15:25

Re: me looking older than the nurses, perhaps I just look older now than most people around! Re the clothing being different. In my field it is not really the case (although I as a consultant would generally probably be a bit more formally dressed than the nurses, although not always!)

theDudesmummy · 08/07/2011 15:26

PS I am a female cosultant and I do wear suits

theDudesmummy · 08/07/2011 15:26

consultant even

bruxeur · 08/07/2011 15:26

In fact this is really confusing me. Theatre nurses, anaesthetists, ODPs and surgeons all look the same in scrubs because, well, they're all wearing scrubs. So do DPs/DHs in the CS theatre. Apart from the gormless/terrified look. Which to be fair is usually shared by the med students.

What makes theatre nurses stand out from that lot and why from OPs description of "scrubs +/- a black stethoscope" have you leapt to theatre nurse from all those options?

bruxeur · 08/07/2011 15:27

tDM - How on earth do you avoid the clipboard nazis?

theDudesmummy · 08/07/2011 15:53

I take off my jacket (and watch usually if I can be bothered) when I am actually on the ward.

theDudesmummy · 08/07/2011 15:55

PS it's not a physical illness ward but CQC still expects us to not wear sleeves anyway, which is balmy in my opinion but there you go...

bruxeur · 08/07/2011 15:56

Which puts you in trousers/skirt+blouse for patient contact - which is what OP is wearing. Perhaps you look like a theatre nurse too, at least to Beta? Am genuinely confused.

theDudesmummy · 08/07/2011 15:56

PS good thing no-one has said anything on the lines of "why did you have kids if you don't want to look after them...", they'd not get a friendly reply! I can't however imagine anyone in my workplace saying that.

bruxeur · 08/07/2011 15:57

Oh it's all bollocks anyway, the BBE fellowship get REALLY twitchy if you ask to see the evidence their recommendations are based on.

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