being a sah is not considered a legitimate pursuit anymore...

[AliGrylls]

I am fed up of people thinking that being a SAHP is the easy option - I am a firm believer it is not an easy option. Most SAHM I know have what I would describe as quite a rough time of it. Hubbie leaving the house at 6/7 am; not getting home until 7/8 and woman is expected to do all the jobs she was expected to do 40/50 years ago, ie, washing, ironing etc - except for the fact that DH wants the children to be kept up so he can play with them and say what a good father he is.

The whole notion that being a working parent is so much harder is not true because while you are out working there is someone else looking after your children for you. You are not trying to do them both simultaneously. What is hard is trying to fit a job around your children, which is what most women want so they can enjoy their lives and their children (I think!)

A woman who chooses to SAH after children start school is not lazy, she is merely trying to redress the fact that she has spent the first few years of her children's life knee deep in nappies and sleep deprived having worked the 17 hour day that was expected of her. When her children start school she will probably be back to working 8-10 hour days that most people work.

Lastly, there is actually no shame in being a SAHP and it can be fulfilling and stimulating. It is just a question of whether one wants to treat is a proper job or a millstone around the neck. Is a job really that much more intellectually stimulating? Surely, after a few years any job loses its ability to stimulate due to the fact it becomes a process? Unless of course you are in academia or a creative job. Except for financial reasons the main reason to go back to work is to have a break from the children / have a career. Neither of which are bad reasons just please admit that this is the reason and not use the fact that you obviously believe you have the intellectual high ground over someone who chooses to SAH.

I strongly believe the above is a feminist issue and I think that being a SAH deserves the same level of respect that being a working parent gets, but it doesn't. Feminists please back up the fact that a woman has a right to choose and she should not be guilted into the modern day notion that working is all and being a full-time mother is not a legitimate pursuit.

Aw Sarah - they are a full time job and the smell, best in the world!

DH says I just feed them tenners, though.

Hhahahaha very true - probably twentys though

aligrylls - wholeheartedly agree with you. and furthermore bringing up children is one of the most important and beneficial jobs for soceity, much more important than running a bank, for instance. And the skills needed, skills such as tolerance, patience, flexibility, multi tasking, communication are much more prized and useful skills than power, control, strength.

What pisses me off is sleb mums who say they understand about being a working mum, VB, Mylene, gwyneth etc. They don't have to make a choice or a sacrifice between working and not being able to bring up their children, they can afford not to work, they work for fun, knowing that they can give it up if they are concerned about their children's well being. Going to work is not difficult, even in my very stressful job, but entrusting the care of your child to soemone less adequate than yourself is heart breaking.

There is certainly no shame in being a SAHP, but no way it is as hard as being a working parent. I know several SAHP of school age children and their days are definately not hard work. All power to them, but they are the first to agree that our friends who work and have children have a much harder life than they do.

Why would you choose to entrust your child to someone who is inadequate ?? Most parents choose the very best they can find .

BTW My DC have never been in childcare -my DP and I have very flexible jobs and so we shared their care. BUT I really do think that parents choose and are very careful in their choice of childcare-they want their DC to be happy and well cared for.

I agree Sarah.
My kids nursery was just fantastic. Far from inadequate!

i didn't day inadequate I said less adequate. Many parents do infact think they would do a better job of bringing up their children than their childminders but cannot afford it, so they make the best possible choice. I would say that most people who choose to use child care do so for financial reasons not because they believe child minders would do a better job than themselves, and certainly if this were true CMs would cost more than 10 pounds per hour!

I think that whether parents SAH or WOH they are still bringing up their children .
I doubt many parents think -Oh Im sure a childminder is better than me -I doubt if I had needed childcare(I didnt) a childminder would have been my first choice anyway.
The point I am trying to make is that parents mostly go to great lengths to find kind,caring and loving childcare.

I think being a SAHP is a much respected role in society and certainly a legitimate one. I would love with all my heart to be a SAHP, infact one of the few things that causes tension between dp and I is the fact that he does not earn enough for us to have more children and for me to become a SAHP.

I do not think it is harder than being a WOHM, certainly in my case anyway. However this is a good thing, working yourself to exhaustion is not a virtue.

Again in my case I do not do everything that a SAHP would do and then work as well, my home is run much better during the holidays when I live out my SAHM fantasies.

yes sarah, i agree, are you deliberately misundersatnding me. Most parents do find the best possible childcare, because they don't have another option - ie to be with their child and not work, sleb mums do have a choice however, if they find that they miss their kids too much or are unhappy with their child care arrangements they can give up their work.
The point I am trying to make is that most parents would like the luxury of not having to put their child in child care, but it is a luxury. And faced with that situation have to find the best possible childcare.

I could not do this either, so i decided to sell my house, move to rented tiny flat and share the childcare with my dh. But it is a massive sacrifice, to sell your house (for a loss, I might add), and go back to work full time when i didn't want to just because i earnt more than dh

Er- No I am not choosing to misunderstand you .
You seem to be assuming that parents who work dont have a choice unless they are "slebs" -I choose to work .
Because I love my job ,it is very fulfilling and I earn approx 40K-which means I and my family have a comfortable lifestyle and I can plan for my DC future security.
If my DP had not been able to work flexibly i would have chosen the best childcare I could afford.
To be a permanent Sahm would not have been an option for me.

yes, you choose to work and you are happy because you don't have to disadvantage your children by doing so.

the point i am making is that for many working parents it is not working which is difficult but finding child care that you are happy with can be difficult. If money is no object then you don not have such a difficult decision because you could give up your work if your childcare was not what you wanted.

I would never give up my job kalo I worked my guts out to get where I am and as I have said before I truly believe I do a job that benefits the lives of others.
I have repeatedly said I didnt have to use childcare but I dont believe that parents who do use childcare disadvantage them by doing so< bangs head against wall and wonders why she is bothering>

i think basically we are agreeing (also banging my head against a wall).

all i'm saying is that sleb mums say they know what its like being a working mum, but yes, they know what its like working - big deal- but the worst bit about being a working mum is worrying if your child is being well looked after, not the bloody working bit. I also do a job that benefits others, is good money, is probably the same bloody job as yours. I wouldn't do it unless i was happy with my child care arrangement. If that were the case I would be broke though and that would cause other probs, thats where me and victoria beckham and gwyneth paltrow differ though!! other than that I'm sure we would all have plenty in common.

I won't be replying any further cos I'm going to shoot myself!! bemused

Dont shoot yourself kalo !
I see what you mean about worrying whether your child was well looked after.I also take your point that I didnt have that worry -fair enough.

I dont pay much attention to celebs though - cant imagine having the pressure to look good and the press attention and speculation about every aspect of your parenting.

One thing I would add is if I had my time again I would def use childcare.It was a real struggle -especially as I did nightwork .In theory it was great but the reality of having to stay up until DD napped or went to nursery was awful.
That is not going to happen though as a hysterectomy means no more DC for me

Hi red jumper - It's great to have a DD though isn't it - and I know I for one am already secretly looking forward to grandchildren one day !

I dont think SAHMs or WOHMS have it easier as a whole group. Some SAHMS will have a very laid back time whereas some will have loads of children/SN etc.

I know me being a working mum is a significantly harder and more tiring than if I was at home. I do have to look after my child the whole time though and work in a paid role at the same time though so I would have to say that there isnt much that is harder than that. You wouldnt believe how stressful it is until you try it!

it isnt a who has it hardest competition.
dont seek approbation from others.it wont be forthcoming.so no point worrying about it. you need to make your own peace and find your own workable soution.and yes people will opine on either option of the sahm or working chosen

i imagine the feminist ideological stance on sahm is supporting individuals choice to stay home or work. it only gets risiible when someone pipes up that housewifery is a job and demands a salary.in which case i will have double income from employment and being mum

I dont think it matters what people do really. Agree with SM that is is ridiculous when SAHMs so being at home is always harder than working and being a mum at the same time or it is a role that deserves a salary. I only think it should have a salary as such if it is with SN children as carers allowance is inqdequate.

Then again I think it is something of a middle class obsession on here with working outside of the home getting you 'respect'. I have never had anyone respect me for working and never ever heard anyone talk about this in RL. You just work to pay the bills, and if you are in a lower paid job you just get on with it and dont expect a medal for it, or status or to be respected. Seems weird to me.

I dont expect medal for working outside of the home but to say "you work to pay the bills " is simplistic.
Yes I do have bills to pay but I get immense satisfaction from my job and like many Nurses I dont just go home on the dot.
The feminist stance on the "choice" has often puzzled me -"the choice" is only there if a partner is willing to support the other person in staying home.

ilovedora it is probably a reaction to being made to feel like nothing by certain people (I'd imagine mainly men who think that Women At Home are nothing but a function and that no office paperwork and management-speak means no brains...)

I am considering becoming an SAHP myself right now as I find trying to combine work, a 2 hour commute and single parenting when I have custody of my boys completely impossible. I just want to do ONE difficult thing in my life thanks v much and I had to decide what was most important, and it was them.

OP I say sod those who don't give you respect. You respect yourself and that is enough! You know how hard it is and kudos to you for sticking with it.

I also dont think that when people refer to a SAHM having a harder job they are referring to the hours worked -It is often harder because it is relentless,isolating and repetetive. I would find it much harder if I SAH and would probably be very depressed -conversely another woman would find working harder if they had an unfulfilling job.

I get satisfaction from both being at home and being at work. At times both drive me up the wall but I dont think anyone respects me for working, or anyone else for that matter. Again it seems to be more important to people who move in more affluent circles. I dont understand the respect or status thing but I suppose I have never known what it is like to have either.