I ordered something online yesterday

[QueenOfFeckingEverything]

And the only options for 'title' on the webform were 'Mr' or 'Ms'.

It made me

Sorry, or Married Sheffield if he'd chosen to take Samantha's surname, of course.

ElephantsAndMiasmas wrote - "I would suggest Mrd for men"

Yes, Mrd would work very nicely too.

I was approaching the issue from the historical context of Mrs being the possession of Mr.
That led me to Mss, being the possession of Ms.

Equality of derivation as well as equality of opportunity.

Oooh, Vesuvia, I like it!

Gender-specific titles seem pretty redundant to me. It shouldn't matter whether you are married or not how people treat you, and that is what the titles are for.

I suppose it's important to have something to denote respect to elders/superiors/strangers though?
Teachers like being Mr/Mrs Surname don't they?

ElephantsandMiasmas - are you saying that my wish to be titled Mrs is as ridiculous as choosing to be titled Empress of the Universe? I also doubt that as many people would wish to have the option of being called Empress of the Universe as would wish to have the option of being called Miss/Mrs.

I'm not the possession of a man, nor am I called Mrs because my dh wants me to be known as his possession.

I've debated this on another thread, and the clear impression I get is that people believe that my choice makes me less intelligent, less thoughtful, less of a modern woman, and basically less worthy of respect. Is it right that a campaign based on equality and respect should make someone feel that way?

It's nothing to do with possessions, to me, it's about the way that one is an inclusive title that covers all women, the other is a title that indicates marital status for women only. As a feminist I think that women's marital status is just as relevant as men's marital status - in other words most of the time not at all relevant. The array of titles available to women force us to categorise ourselves in this way, which IMO is odd and wrong. People think they can ask "Miss or Mrs?" when the question "and are you married?" would likely meet with a pretty rude rebuff from a man as it's none of anyone's business. These titles make it everyone's business.

What if people asked 'What title would you prefer?' - allowing you to tell them Empress of the Universe/Dr/Mrs/Ms/none - would that be better?

And I don't feel that Ms includes me, because it specifically excludes my choice.

Ms doesn't work for me either.

Why do you feel that women should mark their marital status through their names? Because if you want to be called Mrs, and demand that option, then you are making it necessary for us all to categorise ourselves.

I also do not see the need for titles to be included at all, but as it is convention to address someone by a title when referring to them in print, one way of solving it would be to have options of Mr/Ms, and then an 'other' box, in which you could enter Lord, Lady, Dr, Rev, Mrs or 'I once had a fling with a man, but now I am single, although I have my period right now so am not available for sex with any man', depending on how much other information you want to provide to to the world.

ElephantsAndMiasmas - where have I said that women should mark their marital status through their name? I am happy for you to have your choice of title, but I don't think you believe I should have the same choice.

I cannot help but feel that, in pursuit of the right to be called Ms, some people feel it is alright to sacrifice my opinion and wish to be called Mrs - I haven't signed up to be anyone's sacrificial lamb. Campaign for the inclusion of Ms as an option wherever Miss/Mrs are options, and I will be behind you 100%, but try telling me I should give up my personal choice of title, just so that you don't have to express a choice, and then we have an issue.

The suffragettes chained themselves to railings, went to prison for their beliefs, even sacrificed their lives in the fight for the vote. They didn't take other women, who maybe weren't so interested in getting the vote and chain them to railings, or push them under racehorses - an extreme example, I know, but it feels like my feelings and opinions don't matter a hoot here, and can be sacrificed for the Greater Good.

Thistledew - when I worked as a nurse, a lot of older patients would have been very offended if I had called them by their first names without being given their permission. They grew up in an age when you showed it would have been very disrespectful to call someone older than you, or in authority, or someone you didn't know/hadn't been introduced to, by their first name. Out of respect for this and for them, I called them by their chosen title and surname - titles mattered, and still matter to them - and I think their opinions and feelings are worthy of respect here.

I'd be hugely insulted to be called a Ms, I'm a Mrs.
If you are a married woman you are a Mrs, get over it.

Perhaps some feminists, particularly the young, should remember that when some people got married 'Ms' was reserved for posh single old ladies and 'Mrs' very much represented the love of the union. To most people it hadn't occured to them that Miss/Mrs and so on was a feminist issue.

It should be personal choice, Malificence. I like Mrs - others prefer Ms - that's their prerogative, imo.

[whispers] Before I was married I was Ms and now I'm married I am Mrs...I like telling the world I'm married.

I want to be nice and cuddly about this, honestly I do. In my personal life of course I respect people's right to be called what they want and if my friend's insist they want to be called Mrs Whatever then I do so.

But my feeling is that it is wrong that women should be required to mark their marital status in their names, if men are not supposed/required/allowed to do so. It makes it seem as if women's marital status is more important than men's - and why would that be? Really, I'm honestly asking why.

And my previous point was that if you want to be called Mrs, it means putting Mrs as an option, which means I am still (in the view of many/most people) saying something about my marital status by calling myself Ms. Ms is not going to be a neutral choice - like Mr is - if there are other categories that mean Married and Single.

And frankly I don't care what old people think about the term Mrs, we are deciding NOW what's going to happen in the future. I'm not going to ban people calling themselves Mrs or whatever other title they like. What I want to see is people stopping asking us whether we're married or not EVERY BLOODY TIME we fill in a form for anything.

see look I'm getting so exercised about this my apostrophes are flying about :)

I understand your point Ele...

I would also like to see girls take their mothers name and boys their fathers.

Explain why it is my choice of title that should be sacrificed for your freedom of choice? No-one has yet explained to me why I should lose something that is important to me for the sake of people who don't think I deserve the same right as them - ie the right to have my choice of title (a common choice) on forms.

I agree Elephants.

I was pondering earlier that a gender-neutral title denoting respect for elders or strangers etc. might be plausible that could be employed in formal situations when Rev or Dr. etc. wasn't applicable.

Simply calling all women Mistress would be equal to calling all men Mister though.

Why don't you tell me why my choice not to reveal my marital strangers to strangers, should be sacrificed to your wish to reveal yours?

marital strangers - FFS :o

marital STATUS

Hmm. We'd have been a bit buggered. He's Dr and I'm Mrs!

SDTG - it does not take away your choice to tell the world that you are married. If Ms were to be the default option, there are other ways you can indicate that you are married, if it is so important to you to let everyone know.