'Man-hating feminism'

[MisterDarsey]

There's an article about this in the Times today by Libby Purves, provoked by Lionel Shriver's portrayal of the boy in 'We need to talk about Kevin'

Just thought you'd like to know

context?

I think that's from a thread on here isn't it stoptheworld?

Not sure how it's evidence of an organised branch of man-hating feminism though.

I have never met a "man-hating feminist". Am rapidly coming to conclusion that she is largely a myth.

I've read the book and I read the article yesterday, and I didn't recognise the book in the article - I think she's used the release of the film as a tenuous peg to sound off about some prejudices of her own. It's a shame because I usually like Libby Purves.

What I liked about the book, incidentally, was that motherhood isn't presented as some kind of magical state of virtue that all women effortlessly attain immediately post-childbirth, rendering them uniquely prepared for all the burdens of childcare. It's presented as a huge sacrifice (one that the narrator isn't prepared to make) which I feel is a lot closer to the truth than some of the mystical crap we're peddled. It also presents the child as a unique personality from the very start, with his own way of relating to the world - which I also find more realistic than the idea that parents mothers are exclusively responsible for the adults their children become.

To be fair to Libby Purves, her argument wound up being that we shouldn't stereotype boys and then shun them based on this stereotype, which nobody here would disagree with (although we might argue that the emphasis on boys is misplaced), but it took a ridiculously circuitous route to get there; it somehow felt the need to take the film as its starting point, shoehorn the imagined preachings of 'strident feminists' into the piece in order to blame them, and then finally wind up with some lame examples of how boys (bless them) are just victims. Depressing.

sorry - that should have been parents mothers........

I recognise that qoute Stopthewholeworld

I don't think there is an organised (or even disorganised) group of feminists that are united together by the hatred of men. I do think there will be individuals which will have such views but there is no movement that won't have a couple of nefarious people in it. But you can't control the views of every individual and you shouldn't use individuals to label groups of people.

quote not qoute

'The truth is that women create the human race and it's women who have kept it going. Men have basically acted like parasites.'

I don't remember this quote but I can imagine the context in which it would have made sense - if it had been on a thread about how sexism came into existence, for instance, where there was a lot of talk about how early societies worked.

It would be a better etiquette however to link to the thread rather than quote a poster out of context.

It was on precisely that sort of thread.

Some non-feminists hate some men.
Some anti-feminists hate some men.
Some feminists hate some men.
All misogynists hate all women.

Man-hating feminists is just another way in which to dismiss us.

'The truth is that women create the human race and it's women who have kept it going. Men have basically acted like parasites.'

Whoever said that actually is a man-hater, surely? It's just an inversion of the sexism of Aristotle, who thought that the man provides everything that's needed for sexual reproduction while the function of the woman is merely to be a grow-bag for the embryo that the man has created.

No it isn't, that was just scientific error. This sounds like someone commenting on the fact that women have the children, generally look after the children, cultivate the food, cook the food and feed the children, care for sick people etc etc etc - most of the necessities of preserving life are fulfilled by women in most countries.

The more time I spend semi-lurking on here the more I respect what you have to say, dittany.

You are absolutely right, in the communities I worked in in SA it was taken as given that if you give benefits/training/support/food etc to women, they will use it to support their families (elders and children, included extended families) while the men don't. It's obviously not true for all men in those communities but on the whole the women keep the communities together and alive.

Hear hear Dittany.

I would give you a gold star but there doesn't seem to be room for any more on your blouse pinny dungarees.

From a Mumsnet webchat with Lionel Shriver:

Questioner : "Did you write Kevin from a feminist perspective, ie with a conscious political message about motherhood or was it more personal?

Lionel Shriver: No, I didn't write Kevin from a consciously feminist perspective, nor did I have a political message per se."