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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ways the TV series 'Friends' was anti-feminist

330 replies

darleneoconnor · 07/05/2011 12:23

comes from another thread

-There are lots of references to porn, which totally normalises it

  • The women are unhealthily skinny
  • The 'fat Monica' running joke
  • Joey's womanising
  • Phoebe being used as a womb for hire
  • Monica was riddiculed for dating someone 7 years younger than her but it was ok for Ross to date someone 10 years younger then him
  • All the girls' desire to get married (especially Monica's bridzillaness), as opposed to the boys
  • the anti-single mother rant Monica had at her wedding
  • Rachel's birth was very medicalised and disempowering (but in context of USA healthcare system I suppose)
  • Chandler having to be 'taught' how to have a relationship
  • Monicas getting slagged off for having 'lots' of lovers
  • In the episode where Rachel, Phoebe and Joey make an issue of earning less than the others no-one mentions the gender split
  • They do quite gender-specific jobs, Monica/cooking, Joey/acting (which is 2/3 male), Ross/Paleontologist, Phoebe/massuese, Rachel/waitress/fashion buyer, Chandler/IT(?)
  • they get a stripper for a stag do then glamourise it by her saying how well she is paid
  • Ross's homophobia and his lack of equal parenting of his child
  • Monica's obsession with cleaning
  • the rich Monica and Chandler adopting the babies of someone too poor to keep them herself
  • Chandler pretending to watch tv so he doesn't have to do his fair share of the thanksgiving cooking
  • The football game where Rachel is a 'useless' girl, Phoebe flashes her breasts to win a point and Monica is ridiculed for being as competitive as the boys

I'm sure there's more...

OP posts:
Original poster
darleneoconnor · 07/05/2011 17:10

Yes, SGM, I do watch it with DS but I talk to him about why some of it is very bad sexism.

The tokenism is quite a poor attempt at realism. AFAIK tv in USA is very racially split. You have all white shows like Friends and Frasier and all black shows like the Fresh Prince of Bell Air and The Cosby Show. ER and The Wire are notable for being the exceptions.

There was another black girl both Ross and Joey dated and Chandler had a black boss but I cant think of any others.

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 07/05/2011 17:15

Ironically of course it started with great feminist promise - Rachel climbing out of a window to escape marriage.

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/05/2011 17:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
darleneoconnor · 07/05/2011 17:19

belle- yes there is NO WAY under the US health system that she would have had a natural birth, even here it is highly unlikely to not be a c-section. The average gestation of triplets is 34 weeks so it would be likely that 1 or more would need time in SCBU. Also they put 5 (count 'em) embryos in which isn't even legal in the UK. There was little mention of how dangerous that was for her.

I have it on now (cant help myself) and there was just a bit where Chandler spells out boobies with his calculator. The sexist jokes just keep on coming.

OP posts:
Original poster
darleneoconnor · 07/05/2011 17:21

yes, balloon, it did have a slight feministy slant in the beginning. I wonder where/why it all went wrong?

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 07/05/2011 17:24

However, darlene, quite a lot of men do make sexist jokes. Isn't "boobies" on a calculator supposed to indicate what a puerile jerk he is? (Haven't seen all of friends, but isn't he the one who - until Monica - is meant to be too immature to sustain a relationship?)

BellaBearisWideAwake · 07/05/2011 17:25

Darlene-thank you, now when I rant about phoebe's birth experience I will know I am correct!

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 07/05/2011 17:26

This is fascinating, I never did like Friends, but never analysed it like this, now I feel completely justified in not liking it.

millie30 · 07/05/2011 17:27

The portrayal of Joey's sisters is irritating. They are a group of identical women in matching skimpy outfits and are seen as so interchangeable that Chandler can't even be expected to remember which one he made out with.

As well as hot xerox girl and hot single mum, there is also hot girl from Ross' apartment block, where Joey actually wanders up and down the hall calling out "hot girl, hot girl!"

dittany · 07/05/2011 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Panzee · 07/05/2011 17:27

I like Friends and also agree with many of these points, and the link Dittany provided of what happened behind the scenes makes sense when you watch the show.

But the births... Phoebe had triplets vaginally, and Rachel's baby was breech, also born vaginally. I wouldn't complain too much about the medicalisation there. Most would have had sections, no questions asked.

Panzee · 07/05/2011 17:27

Oh, missed your earlier post!

Bonsoir · 07/05/2011 17:28

The whole point of Friends is that they are all deeply immature. You are supposed to laugh at them for being so disastrously childlike, not to take it at face value...

BitOfFun · 07/05/2011 17:35

I don't think that critically evaluating cultural products is taking anything at face value- quite the reverse.

HerBEggs · 07/05/2011 17:38

Yes that's true, they are very childish, you're supposed to laugh at them for that to begin with but as the series goes on and they get stuck in that arrested development, it's not just that you're supposed to laugh at them, by that time, they've got bits of adulthood about them and also, you are supposed to laugh with them and find their childishness charming and kooky and aspire to be that brainless yourself.

I remember discussing this with XP at the time, we watched it from about the fourth series onwards I think and of course enjoyed t, but we did discuss it and I remember us talking about how anti-intellectual the series was - everyone in it is basically stupid, apart from Ross who is the academic and of course, is emotionally and socially stupid. None fo them have any education, none of them have any books in their flats or any hint that they might be interested in anything other than sport, porn, handbags and shoes.

Bue · 07/05/2011 17:39

Millie30 I hate the male nurse episode. WTF can't a man be a nurse without actually being a medical student? Ugh.

For current multiracial American television with kick ass female characters I recommend The Good Wife.

Bonsoir · 07/05/2011 17:42

Indeed, which is why I thought the series got progressively less and less funny - at the beginning you laugh (a bit) at their ridiculous immaturity but as the show went on and you are supposed to buy into that immaturity it lost its humour entirely IMO.

Original poster
darleneoconnor · 07/05/2011 17:53

Another one: Chandler goes to Joey's family home to find Joey home because his Gran is doing his laundry.

OP posts:
Original poster
darleneoconnor · 07/05/2011 18:01

Herbeggs- 4 of them went to Uni! Ross got a PhD. That's hardly uneducated.

They do read a little- there was a 'how to be your own windkeeper' book episode which was quite feministy and there was one where rachel swapped her 'Little Women' with Joey's 'The Shining'.

at the start Phoebe is a bit of an activist but they blend that out, even making her a corporate sell-out by the end.

OP posts:
BalloonSlayer · 07/05/2011 18:02

But Joey is meant to be shallow, lazy, thick. He is not supposed to be a role model.

electra · 07/05/2011 18:06

''

darlene - I agreed with what you said in your OP but you can't tell people they aren't allowed to post on a public forum - you don't own this board. And if you tell people to f off then you can expect your posts to be deleted.

I don't understand that kind of aggression - it is not pleasant. And yes, misogyny is everywhere - it frustrates me too. But the world cannot be changed overnight...

Bonsoir · 07/05/2011 18:08

Yes, Joey is an antihero.

JoanofArgos · 07/05/2011 18:11

Rachel may claim to have read Little Women, but the scriptwriters make the classic mistake of claiming Beth dies in it, which she does not!

HerBEggs · 07/05/2011 18:13

darlene I'm stunned. Grin

That makes it even worse actually. The fact that they are all formally supposed to be not stupid, but all their conversation would indicate that in fact, they are. There is no background of intellectual curiosity is there - on paper they're clever (like Ross) but they don't let that spill over into their everyday conversation, in case it would spook the supposedly stoopid audience, I suppose.

I think it's valid to threaten to tell people to fuck off actually. It's too tiresome when people come on to threads like this and say oh can't you just disengage your brain and enjoy it, can't you doom-ridden feminists enjoy anything? Well, yes, we can, but it's fun and interesting to have a feminist analysis of cultural phenomena. And actually it's important too, to analyse how culture feeds off and then feeds back into societal attitudes and mores.

electra · 07/05/2011 18:15

You won't change people's opinions by telling them to f off or inferring that people are not welcome on the thread.

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