can i ask a feminist perspective of the full face veil, neqab.

[tomhardyismydh]

I just wondered if any of you well informed inteligant ladies, could belive that some women now 'own' the veil as thier own feminist stand against being an object for the the male gaze.

or is the feminist stance collect on the veil being opressive etc.

I am asking simply out of interest based on the newsnight interview last night.

The problem with banning it is that it just harms women.

Does anyone really think that those women who wore it, will now take it off to go out?

No. They'll either wear it and get a fine etc, or they will never leave the house. - or never be ALLOWED to leave the house.

If the wearing of it was a prison for women, removing the right to wear it is more of a prison.

If anyone thinks that these women will now go out in a twinset, they are stupid. These poor women will now be prisoners in their own homes.

I have no idea what the solution is. Well, it's to stop men seeing women as their property, but quite how something that massive can ever be acheived, I have no idea.

Well, I count myself as a feminist and I support the ban.

I do not represent any other feminists, only myself.

I would never commit an act of violence against anyone and I would not pull the veil off any veiled woman. Supporting the ban is not the same as condoning such acts, and I think it is despicable that you correlate the two.

People cannot be allowed absolute free choice in any society, there are many things I am not permitted by law to choose. Why do you think that removing this one particular choice (if choice it really is) is so terrible?

Women are not being told what to wear - they are being told "you cannot wear this one particular thing."

Feminist perspective?

A bloke wrote a book telling women to cover up. What's more to say?

And before anyone says it wasn't 'a bloke' it was god, tell me any mainstream religion run by women.

Forkful, I'm well aware that things are not "hunkydory" in Afghanistan and I cannot understand how you have interpreted my post in that way. I asked a question regarding the legal position of wearing the veil. Under Taleban rule women were legally required to wear the burqa. I thought the legal position had changed. I understand that tribal customs mean that the menfolk are still forcing women to be covered and that the legal position means very little for most women. I did read a couple of years ago that things were improving for middle class women in the large cities and that they were no longer wearing the burqa. Perhaps the situation is getting worse? I asked a simple question there is no need for the it can be perceived as hostile and off putting for a newcomer to MN.

Sorry to be offputting . I inferred from your post that since the wearing is not now law then that means that women there are free to choose whether to wear it (and I don't believe they do have the choice).

No worries.

It's got nothing to do with innate sex differences. That doesn't alter the fact that the vast majority of violence is carried out by men. It being innate or not doesn't not change that fact.

I had thought of a response but everything I want to say has been said by Dittany throughout this thread, only better.

That's a crap article. So crap I can't be bothered to critique it.

"[The niqab] in no way prevents them from interacting with people or going about their business?unless someone is discriminating against them."
When was the last time you saw someone in work wearing a niqab? I have seen women in the streets and in shops in niqab but never "going about her business" wearing one. It does prevent interaction isn't that the whole point of them for goodness sake!

i think that banning it is wrong - is suggests lack of religious freedom and another attempt to decide womens' fate. in this case, 2 wrongs don't make a right. unfortunately, i see france's decision to ban as the beginning of a slippery slope. I am appalled at this decision, esp in light of recent policy regarding the expulsion of roma gypsies 'back' to romania. europe is fast-becoming an intolerant place. Like most, i don't like the idea of the burqa or niqab, but i hate the fact that women are having decisions taken from them even more so. feminism has so much further to go.... ladies, we have lots of work to do!!!