can i ask a feminist perspective of the full face veil, neqab.

[tomhardyismydh]

I just wondered if any of you well informed inteligant ladies, could belive that some women now 'own' the veil as thier own feminist stand against being an object for the the male gaze.

or is the feminist stance collect on the veil being opressive etc.

I am asking simply out of interest based on the newsnight interview last night.

I love the word inteligant. It's a cross between intelligent and elegant.

Nah, don't like them.

I do indeed support the ban, Teitetua. I disagree that it is supporting tyranny. I believe that it is for the good of women as a whole group, as I stated in my post at 14:59, and therefore for the good of society. As nobody exists in a vacuum, we are part of a society, we cannot be free to do anything at all we like. Just as with free speech, lines have been drawn at inciting hatred, racism, etc, for the good of society.

What irks me is the vague inference that if a woman choses not to wear a veil it is her fault if a man subjects her to sexual assault (verbal or physical).

Make the choice on what you wear but ensure firstly it's your choice and not one that castigates the rest of society who opt to be different.

The niqab is about hiding away
What's wrong is that women feel that they have to hide away
The niqab is an answer to a symptom and ignores the real cause of the problem

In some instances I think we need to choose an imperfect path that leads us to a solution more quickly. I would back positive discrimination in the selection of MPs for example as a desirable short term only measure as an imperfect short cut to achieving progress but nonetheless a shortcut worth taking.

I have a similar viewpoint about the veil.

If a woman has chosen to wear it then it doesn't matter to me. Heck if I didn't full expect to be judged and treated badly I might wear one for convenience. I'm not Muslim but the idea of having something to put on to face the world that let's me opt out of having to do make up, tame hair etc really appeals.

Then just don't do makeup, KatieMiddleton. I don't, and it's never caused me any problems.

KM doesn't it matter why women re making these extreme choices?

why women are making these extreme choices even

Oooh no! I couldn't do that but I'm happy to swap one cover up for another. Nothing to men either.

Am thinking about some enormous sunglasses. Would save me about an hour a week.

Well women in Afghanistan and other places who are beaten are not wearing it out of choice are they? That was my caveat. Freedom to make our own choices.

The thing is that its not really a free choice though
ITs a choice between choose to cover up or be treated like a sex object and disrespected
When actually there should be a choice to dress as you wish and still be respected

So if you have the freedom to make choices but only within the constraints of what is acceptable to men what kind of "freedom" is it really?

Your entitled to your opinions as I am of mine - but I wouldn't dream of being so rude to you.

In the UK educated women who are not oppressed choose to wear it. Why would that bother me? I get more bothered by women who feel the need to expose large amounts of flesh tbh.

well said, FattyAcid

likewise alexpolismum

I disagree.

"I get more bothered by women who feel the need to expose large amounts of flesh tbh."

Why does that bother you so much?

Why would women exposing themselves bother me? I'd have thought it was obvious. It's about self respect.

The last point. The idea that educated women who are not oppressed but choose to wear the veil are colluding in the horrible oppression that does occur in some societies.