Porn - I use it and feel bad - help convince me porn is wrong

[GuiltyPornUser]

Firstly, sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, although I thought it may be the most appropriate. I'm a married man, and I use porn fairly regularly. It's not something I feel has a massive negative effect on my life, but I feel bad about it. I'm not someone who specially goes out of my way to buy porn, (I've never paid for it), but with the internet, it's only ever a few clicks away.

I want to be convinced that it's wrong. I recently read Andrea Dworkin's book on pornography, but it hasn't stopped me. I appreciate that a lot of stuff on the web is very brutal and degrading to women, but a lot of the stuff is less obviously so.

My DW wouldn't be happy with me using porn, and I want to stop. I want to be convinced that it's wrong, and how I go about stopping using porn, when it's so easy to find on the internet.

There may be some here who think porn is acceptable and I'm just suffering from some almost religious guilt.

I'd really welcome some advice here, because my DW could find out one day and I want to stop.

Hello Crawling. Thanks for your insightful and powerful post.

I hope things are better for you now. Take care.

Beachcomber, this is where we agree, but I my point is that 1970s porn wasn't ok, just because it looked nice (as you imply but I know you don't really think it was), but still had the same objectification of women at its core.

I don't know whT Dittany would say, but I would say that he was in denial because the abuse of women wasn't that big a deal to him at the time. He lives in a society which vociferously and loudly tells him, that the abuse of women is not really abuse and unless you are either unbelievably intelligent, motivated, humane etc. or you have a personal reason for thinking more deeply about it, most people accept what their society tells them and don't really question it too much. Tht's not to say that everyone in society is a complete moron or utterly benighted, just to accept that most people most of the time are gettting on with their lives and unless someone puts a bomb up0 their arse about an issue, they jsut don't think about it.

I don't know if this is a fact, but my impression is that lots of men don't really think about the issues surrounding porn and porn use, until they actually have daughters. It's that whcih motivates them to re-think their attitudes and delve a little more deeply into the things they simply accepted as normal and OK. (Not just attittudes around porn, but around sexism in general.)

And many men of course, simply never think. About anything.

RitaLynn you said;

"I don't suggest it's all happy smiling girls"

Well what is it then? As far as I can see it is violent, racist, sexist objectification of women with some borderline paedophilia and rape fantasy chucked in for extra added fun.

Actually, I'll take back the 'borderline' and the 'fantasy' bits.

OK, then, Dittany. What do you think?

As a teenager, no I didn't look at the titles. I never watched any of this horrific stuff you speak of, I'd never of got off on that. I've never heard of ATM, and I still don't know what Bukkake is (and I'm not sure I do). Some of the acts mentioned on this thread have made me feel sick, and looking back the titles of these things are quite shocking. Yes somehow I remember titles that are slightly less obviously degrading (from a teenager's perspective):

"Bikini Babe at it"
"Two blondes sharing a guy"
"Lesbian's in oral action"

I know these are still, from an older and a little wiser perspective, dehumanising, all I'm saying is that they weren't as obvious as some of the aweful titles you and Beach have come across, too a young and naive mind.

I'm not saying that 1970s porn was ok. The fundamentals were all there - objectification, dehumanizing, rape, racism, etc.

I'm just saying that since the advent of the video/DVD/internet mediums, porn has got much more violent and abusive. It is also a million times easier and more profitable to sell and a million times easier to get hold of.

We also have the increasing problem of amateur, voyeur and 'predatory' porn where women and girls are filmed without their knowledge, or after having been manipulated and coerced by the likes of the disgusting 'Girls Gone Wild' sexual predators.

A lot of the porn that looks so consensual has been secretly filmed or put on the internet without the permission of the woman.

Beachcomber, I know you're not saying 1970s porn was fine, I was just trying to clarify your objection

I'm not trying to score cheap points, I'm trying to get to an understanding of why men use porn, and I don't think the answer is "they're bastards who like to watch women being abused" is anywhere near valid for the millions of men in the UK who watch porn. I think it's far, far more subtle than that.

If we want to solve a problem, I think we need to understand it.

Yes what I can't understand, is how people are happy to allow boys to see this stuff - they should be protected from it, not bombarded with it as part of the construction of their masculinity. Where is the fucking responsibility of adults who shrug and start bleating on about censorship? Do you really not value boys any higher than this? Is the porn industry really more important than the psychological and sexual well-being of the next generation of human beings?

dittany, I don't watch as much porn as you do, but my understanding was that those categories you mention are not at the mainstream of porn - yes, they exist on the internet.

Ok, starting from scratch, would it be ok if porn were only straight man-woman sex? Is your only objection coming from the more extreme forms?

Rita I think men like to watch this stuff because they are exposed to the idea that women are less than human from a very early age. They are surrounded by messages which say that women have encroached on their territory and are castrating them, they are encouraged by nearly all the societal messages they receive, to resent the gains that women have made in the last century and fear them and fight them instead of welcoming them, then they are exposed at a ridiculously early, vulnerable age to revenge fantasies in effect, of humiliating and degrading the human beings who supposedly are castrating them. That's what these fantasies are about - punishment and revenge for women not knowing their place. You wanted sexual freedom and liberation, you wanted the right to sleep around and have no strings sex just like men do? Well here you are, have it then, with three penises at a time, at least one of them with shit on it in your mouth.

And they are encouraged to be the viewer and the perpetrator - the viewer is not in the place of the abused woman, s/he is in the place of the abuser.

Rita, I think the answer to that is still no. Because, as Crawling illustrated, for the girl's to think it's OK to sell their bodies for the enjoyment of others it is likely the result of past abuse. Therefore, the porn industry is still profitting off the abuse that was inflicted upon them.

The problem with this hardcore stuff is that it's even worse torture for people who've already been subjected to these sorts of acts for the amusements and pleasure of abusers. Now they are staring in videos of it and thinking that everyone likes to do this stuff that they now see as normal. Everyone happily sits down to watch a women recieve double anal penetration in their eyes. This further reinforcing their belief that no one cares about them as human beings and everyone is perfectly happy for them to be nothing more than a jizz-rag. When they need help, not to be gang banged repeatedley.

Thanks all

When I was growing up my behaviour screamed abuse You only had to look at me to see I was in agony yet people turned a blind eye. I see porn as the same thoose women are screaming yet many people just claim it is ok and yet again ignore evident abuse. I guess people want to live thier nice happy lives without the inconvenience of others pain. I agree with Dittany there is a big difference between a teenager and a adult. I never expected a child to have the power to stand up and say no but I think it is reasonable to expect it of a adult.

dittany, I've read both of those book, and my objection to porn comes from the angle that TAB comes from, that it's not ok to teach women it's ok to sell your body for sex, doesn't matter if it's page 3, or gang bang.

I suppose I want to focus on that, rather than the extreme ends.

By the way, I watched the documentary, and it was horrible

In total agreement with everything in HerBEggs' post of Fri 15-Apr-11 12:05:42.

Rita that sure seems like an upside down way of looking at things.

The problem with porn is not the women who find themselves in the position of selling sex. I hope you don't mean it that way, but that just sounds like so much victim blaming to me.

The problem with porn is what HerBEggs said so well in her last post.

I don't think she's blaming the victims, Beach. I think what she means is the problem of teaching vulnerable young women that it is acceptable to sell their bodies, and it is OK for them the think that it is their only skill or purpose in life.