I don't want to be a feminist

[ShirleyKnot]

Honestly.

I don't. I don't want to see all of this that you bastards have shown me.

I always considered myself to be a

Not all that relevantly, Alex - you've just reminded me of my Jane Eyre critique for O-level! Out of a class of 30 girls, only 3 of us thought Jane was a sap. On the upside, our teacher was much provoked by our pov and said she'd incorporate it in her teaching for the future. Our most feminist teachers, at an all-girls grammar, were the male economics & maths teachers. I'm still grateful :)

There is a lot of fun to be had as a feminist, though. It's not all catsbumface every time someone tells a joke - and there is plenty of feminist humour around. There's also that nice warm glow when you do or say something feminist and you change someone's mind.

Hurrah, Lenin! :) Yes, it helps.

Shimmerysilverglitter - whenever someone who has only been lurking before starts posting, THAT makes it feel worthwhile. The feeling that there are more and more of us all the time.
Welcome

I have admitted to lurking (and do occasionally post) on the feminist threads but in my experience, if you have a different opinion, try and test out theories, or ask questions, you get shot down in flames. Perhaps I am naive in thinking you don't have to be a self proclaimed feminist to post?

I am now of the opinion that you have to be a feminist to be allowed to post here, which I think is sad. But I do keep lurking out of genuine interest.

Hmm K999 it depends how people go about it I think. If posters delurk to ask questions etc I would hope (and have seen) they get a friendly reception. Obviously all the posters on here are individuals rather than some giant club, and it's important to remember that if one person says something you don't like, it doesn't mean that "The Feminist Section" has rejected you.

Shirley, I've always liked you and now I like you even more :) Sometimes it's pretty uncomfortable because the stuff that lots of other people like makes you want to scream. But mostly I find that it's a really empowering (bleugh) way to be - yes it's angry a lot of the time but seeing how the skeins of the patriarchy are woven through everything feels like being a bit of a secret agent - only you have the power to unlock the code.

Or perhaps I'm just a bit tired and had a few too many ciders at my mate's bbq this afternoon :o

I go with enjoying the rage. And, also, explaining why things are unacceptable or unfair to those who don't "get it".

I love a good rant though...

Ugh yes StayFrosty - I was listening to a programme the other day about rape as a tool of war and it sometimes makes me think that we have so, so far to go it feels a bit hopeless.

I agree with the op. I also feel a bit impotent in that I have feminist ideals but I just can't articulate them properly and rationally. I don't know why this eludes me, I'm pretty well educated. Maybe it's because I came to feminism while having two young kids so I just don't have the brain power for rational thought at the moment. Or maybe it's because I am so entrenched in the artificial choice brand of feminism where we had to be 'up for it' and holding our own with the lads in their culture rather than fighting it. I'm embarrassed at the way I have acted in the past.

I find it hard to make reasoned arguments. Eg. I was at my knitting group last week (this example is great, it's got knitting groups, patriarchy and religion in it!). Anyway, the woman who runs the group is lovely, four kids, no nonsense, doesn't mind that I bring both dc's to the group, but also very churchy and very conservative. She was saying how one woman in their church had emailed her Dh (who is obviously quite key in the church) complaining about a hymn that calls them all God's sons. She objected to being seen as a 'son'. Apparently the dh had written back with an explanation about putting the hymn which came from a psalm in a context where first
sons used to be considered the most important and by calling us all sons the psalm was saying that we was all (women included) as important as first sons used to be. And she (my friend) made some sort of flippant comment about 'we're not burning our bras any more'.

I tried to argue that what her dh said pretty much reinforced the sexism but it was really hard for several reasons; I respect this woman in every other way and didn't want to insult her husband or her religion, especially when she welcomes us into her home, I didn't really have the right words, I am the youngest there so feel a bit 'disrespectful' and not very confident in my own views of the world, and most annoyingly I am wary of being seen as some kind of raving, whining feminist loon (how do you get past that one? Is there a case for picking your audience?).

Just to point out that the above feelings are my own. I'm not made to feel them by this woman, she is lovely, but I struggle with the conservative views of the knitting group, and mostly we all go there to chill and enjoy knitting and nice cakes, not getting bogged down with political talk, though I do always try and fight my corner when necessary.

Sorry that was really long!

Me too.

I am angry-middle-aged-woman.

Good post, Bumper.

I don't know how to handle these situations. DOn't want to offend others, but want to get my point across.

Tricky.

Yet when I get going I feel this anger inside me.

Gawd yes SF - being apologetic is such a weakening feeling isn't it. As if you were being horribly oversensitive about something, even when that "something" is out and out sexism. Totally agree about hanging out with feminist women being a real relief/reinforcer of hope & determination to change things.

Also, the men that I know who just cleanly understand that there is a continuing history of oppression of women - meaning that I never have to explain to them why something or wrong, and never have to hear that something is "just a joke" - spending time with them is a bit of a holiday. They make me see that not ALL men are wedded to their privilege, to the point of denying the bleeding obvious that's around us for all to see.