So there was this bloke in the women's toilets right.....

[EllieG]

I got in an argument in the pub last night, and my friend said I was being uptight, and possibly, maybe I was, but see what you think.

It's little, but it annoyed me. Drunk, loud man standing in middle of women's toilets flirting with girl from hen do. I walk in, get irritated (cos it's not like the men's ones were busy and he nipped in as desperate, or was being unobtrusive - he was kinda making a Big Loud Point IYSWIM) and I say to him

'These are the women's toilets. Please leave.' and when he dawdled
'Off you go please' (said in brisk school-teacher tones).

He said I was patronising (which I admit, I may have been) but left.

He was on the stairs when I came out and as I went round the corner he said, 'Big arse, nice hair'

I went back and said
'Excuse me - did you say something?' as was irritated because he didn't say it TO me, and he repeated this. I told him he was rude and inappropriate and that my asking him to leave hardly warranted him making nasty personal comments, and left it.

It didn't bother me what some silly bloke thinks of my arse, and possibly I was patronising, and unwise. But DID annoy me that my polite challenge was met with someone insulting my backside. Rude.

My friend said I was uptight and I should have left him in the toilet and not said anything and I brought it on myself.

Good for you. You absolutely pwned him by the sound of it. ANd you weren't being uptight - a man using the ladies' loo because he is (for instance) accompanying his small and newly potty-trained DD in there is fair enough, as would be a man using the ladies because the gents was wrecked. Being in there just because you are drunk and showing off it not good.

Good for you OP... he was being a twat.

Ya he KNEW he'd been told...he had only ONE recourse...which was to try and hit you where it hurt...he failed twice!

Thank you. My friend's reaction made me feel that I had been petty and silly, glad you lot don't think I was way out of line. Silly man.

I suppose the thing that annoyed me (in a more general way, because this wasn't such a big issue in itself - sorry to harp on) was that it seems that these days you are just supposed to accept rude and sexist behaviour because it's 'being a lad' or whatever, and if you challenge it, you're labelled as uptight or a prude. And women are therefore supposed to sit tight, look pretty (and small-arsed) and accept whatever is said or done by drunken idiots without ever saying a word.

I think you did very well there Ellie, well done.
are you a teacher by any chance? my mum is very good at telling people off because she just reverts to schoolteacher mode and patronises them into the ground

the thing about accepting rude and sexist behaviour - yes, exactly.
something that always strikes me is that in the past other men would have frowned on men behaving like this because it would have been regarded as ungentlemanly. Like the way you weren't meant to swear in front of ladies or display porny calendars except in all-male environments like garages. So men used to police each other in a way they no longer do and women are expected to just suck up everything.
when people complain about feminists wanting censorship I sometimes think to myself 'well, if they self-censored more, ie used their free speech responsibly and politely, it wouldn't be necessary, would it?'
I mean, something like the vile pornographic Suit Supply ad campaigns would never have happened 40 years ago; even if men had wanted to look at such images in private they would never have considered it their right to impose it on other people and women and children in particular.
sorry, I'm rambling away from the main point of the thread; am I making sense about the connection?

Yeah you were right to tell him to leave the womens' toilets, and even righter to challenge him when he made inappropriate comments to you.

I was once pinned to the wall by a very drunk man on the way to the toilet in a pub. He 'wanted a kiss' [bleeugh] and was all beery and gross and falling over and didn't get off when I pushed him away.

I went for him, put fingers in his eyes and pushed his face away, hit him round the face and whacked him between the legs and then ran for the toilets.

And then was chased into the toilet by two of his female friends demanding to know why I couldn't take a joke, and did I know how much I had upset him, and it was his birthday and I had ruined it [diddums]

Ugh.

So yes well done and I hope you'd do the same again

Good for you, Ellie. You were absolutely not being uptight.

YANBU EllieG.
What an arse, he deserved what he got - an intelligent women using courtesy and directness to show him the error of his ways.

I agree with you, seth. All this sham talk of "respect", yet there seems to be precious little of it actually shown to other people.

Yes seth - that's exactly what was annoying me - you are right - there is little self-censorship and when you ask for some it's somehow wrong to even be slightly critical.

Because proper women are fine with porn/being grabbed/ leered over/insulted - it's how you know you're attractive obviously.

QueenOFE - I used to thai-box, and one time this bloke (after I politely refected his advances) blocked my way and was being horrid and squaring up to me. So I elbowed him away - then legged it. His friends were similarly cross and intimated that I should have just seen his 'joke' but I didn't find it funny to be pushed around and intimidated. No one gets to do that. Good on you.

And yes - I used to be a primary teacher - hence the bossiness!

You were being patronising yes. It's very difficult to tell someone something they ought to already know (twice because they're too much of a cock drunk to do it when told once) without being patronising. He deserved to be patronised. The only real reason a male should be in the ladies is if his mummy needs to wipe for him.

Like someone else said he knew you'd won.
And then you won again when he commented
on your arse and you continued to be a grown-up.

Your mate needs to have a think though.

Thanks - is good to feel a bit reinforced. I didn't have any qualms about telling him to bog off, but what actually made me feel a bit small and stupid was my mate telling me how daft I had been. Glad am not way off base. She takes the mick out of me quite a bit because recently have been reading up more about feminist issues and I've raised them in conversation, and she laughs about it, saying it doesn't suit me etc. I know she doesn't mean it (she is a very dear friend and we laugh at lots of inappropriate things) but it hurts me more when women belittle somehow - I expect it from idiot mysogonistic men, but it's hard to know how to respond when women don't support or label you as some kind of no-fun person for having a view.

misogynistic

sorry, typo

Interestingly enough - I saw him with his gf in the taxi queue after (he made another sarky comment which I ignored) and she wasn't the one he was flirting with. Knobber. Should've dropped him in it

My heart applauds you, but my brain questions the wisdom.

Obviously he was a complete arsehole, however he was also a DRUNK arsehole (with drunk friends).

In a situation like that, you have no idea what the response might be to a sharp tongued (sp?) response (no matter how appropriate and satisfying).

Please think of your own personal safety first, especially if you have are particularly skilled in the one-line put down.

That's what my DH said.

A finger in the notch behind the earlobe, where it meets the skull is a very effective way of putting a large man on the floor with one finger only. I have used it to devastatingly humiliating effect in similar circumstances.

Good on you for standing up to the wanker. I also find the teacher voice has a pavlovian effect on most people.

haha - good for you. If more people stood up against shitty behaviour of all kinds, without being frightened off, the world would be a better place. So many people do feel scared because of past experiences, or because age or health problems make them feel vulnerable, that it's especially important to argue/fight back when you DO feel able IMO.

You did a great job, he definitely lost that one every which way :o

Hope this cheers you up

I agree it is good to fight back.
the man is clearly a bully and the way they get like that is by never being challenged.

Good for you Ellie - I would not have the courage to say anything.

well done EllieG well done. i would have tried to do the same, but probably nowhere near as effectively as you did! i also agree with dittany, (again) that we DO need to challenge this behaviour as often as possible!