Resisting femininity experiment - who's in?

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

I was thought-provoked by the 'I'm a feminist but....' thread, particularly Dittany's posts, in which she talked about women who choose not to 'perform femininity'.

I posted on the other thread that I hugely object to all that bikini-line business but do still shave my legs. Am not sure why I do this, so I think I'm going to stop and see how it feels. It felt like a major issue when I was 20 or so but I actually suspect not shaving them now would make me feel more, rather than less, confident.

So I wondered if anyone else was thinking about giving up any beauty practices or other elements of compulsory femininity and would like to do it together and see how it feels.

this is not a competition - if you decide after a day you hate it and can't live without it, fine, but it would be really interesting to hear about, and I think it could advance our understanding of how this all works.

anyone else in?

btw, I am in a vile mood today so if anyone wants to come along to the thread and tell us we are just falling into the trap of thinking all feminists have to have hairy legs, or that actually they wax everything and are a still better feminist than meeeee, I will tell them to fuck off because if you don't 'get' this I can't be bothered explaining, either you get it or you don't

actually Claig whenever I go onto environmentalist threads I always think 'well one way a huuuuuge amount of energy could be saved would be if everyone went back to not showering every day'.
it is not necessary. A little bit of BO never killed anyone, and it's the future of the planet at stake, don't you know?

'Well, moondog, I suppose the point about leaving hair on (if you ignore my last post!) is that your hair just grows, so leaving it is the default, and removing it is cultural conditioning.'

Well wear does it start and finish Habbibu?
Is deodorant 'cultural conditioning?
Knickers?
Central heating?
Tea?
Saying hello?

Thanks Seth - yes got the all clear and ended up feeling a tad like a hypercondriac (how do you spell that?).

moondog, did you once get run over by a woman with hairy legs or summat ?

you are being a crashing bore

Ah, PA.
Only yes wimmin need apply eh?

Not so much hard and fast rules, moondog, but certainly norms - and I don't for a second believe that you don't think there's such a thing as cultural/societal conditioning.

Habb - no, I'm not cheating.
knee length is my preferred style.
but one of them is a lovely retro 40s style tea-dress so tbh hairy legs would be more authentic with that.

IME, apart from the visibility angle, it is actually somewhat more awkward in winter than summer, if you are someone who likes to wear dresses. I used to wear dresses and opaque tights a lot in winter, and when I wasn't shaving I found that the tights would sort of flatten and uncomfortably tug at longish leg hair.

Also found that when I didn't shave legs and weather was v v cold (like NY winter), I got more of an issue with dry/chapped skin on my shins, which was a little uncomfortable. I guess that regular shaving sort of exfoliates the skin and stops this. Anyway, nothing some moisturiser didn't solve straight away.

Grooming is cleaning, isn't it? For non-human animals? Cleaning and de-lousing, as opposed to plucking and highlighting. Whether that is a learned behaviour or innate I don't know.

moondog, I have no idea what your gender is

was I meant to ?

you are boring though, male or female

Habbibu, but where do you think it starts and finishes, particulalry in terms of all this stuff?
Where do you say 'Hang on, that's not just innocent cultural stuff, this is conditioning.?

Well wear does it start and finish Habbibu?
Is deodorant 'cultural conditioning?
Knickers?
Central heating?
Tea?
Saying hello?

Quite possibly, but they only become problematic if they're only applied to one section of society, where the other section is much freer in the way they behave and are perceived by others.

Do you think men are bound down by constraintsw that women aren't though?

Personally speaking, I fell really sorry for men these days.

"Does it bother you DM if not everyone claps their hands excitedly and goes 'Oooh yes, I'm going to let my eyebrows go really bushy and to hell with those split ends!'"

No. Why would it?

But when people who are interested are chatting away contentedly, minding their own, and someone barges in to rant at them, it's a bit odd.

Never mind ...

ah, I see what you mean, moondog, I thought you meant only women need apply

but you are still boring

do you make a habit of crashing people's conversations and telling them how silly they are ?

this isn't a thread asking for opinions or did you not realise that ?

seth that is the sort of thing that Ken Livingstone would probably agree with. He of the advice not to flush your toilet everytime, in order to "save the planet". As an aside, i agree with Hully about Brian Cox. I especially don't like it when he starts on the green thing and gives us his views on climate catastrophe. I never take Ken and Brian seriously.

Interesting idea, but like LG (I think?) I don't do much of this anyway so not sure what I could 'give up'! Hairy legs - tick, no make up - tick, no high heels - tick, short hair - tick. I have my odd 'feminine moment' when I buy a nice dress and then realise its too much of an effort and pull on the black trousers again!!
Will be interested to see how others feel....

Well, men can't generally wear skirts or as many colours as women. But the cultural constraints imposed on women are broader and more directly involve her body, not just what she sticks on it, iyswim. I'll feel sorry for men when they're not geneally the bosses of practically every govt and major institution, tbh, moondog. Until then I think they'll cope.

What's wrong with learned behaviour and cultural conditioning? That's what teaches us manners and to say "good morning". We live in society, not alone on islands. Societies have evolved and customs are part of society. Customs that have strong support probably have an underlying reason, otherwise they would lose support.

fwiw, I'd place much higher value on good manners and politeness to others than I would on grooming - that's probably also cultural conditioning, but I think that a bit of thoughtfulness and kindness is more of a universal benefit to society than the removal of hair.

I'm of the opinion that yes you can give up make up and the GHDs, or you can use them. I think the issue is to focus on why you do. If it's because we're told to look a certain way by the male dominated media, then you are informed and can opt out. If you do it because like me you have overplucked your eyebrows and pencil them in to prevent scaring people then that's an informed decision.

If you get up and shave your legs on the off chance that a man may be disgusted with you otherwise, then perhaps that's a not-so informed decision.

Well, obviously claig, but when the conditioning is used to the detriment of one section of society that's where it's wrong. It used to be much more culturally acceptable to be racist, after all.

yy, LOTM - I think most people would find it very hard to reject all cultural norms, and for good reason in many cases, but an awareness of why your behaviour is the way it is seems to me the sign of a civilised being.

I think the interesting question is why does this cultural norm exist?