Resisting femininity experiment - who's in?

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

I was thought-provoked by the 'I'm a feminist but....' thread, particularly Dittany's posts, in which she talked about women who choose not to 'perform femininity'.

I posted on the other thread that I hugely object to all that bikini-line business but do still shave my legs. Am not sure why I do this, so I think I'm going to stop and see how it feels. It felt like a major issue when I was 20 or so but I actually suspect not shaving them now would make me feel more, rather than less, confident.

So I wondered if anyone else was thinking about giving up any beauty practices or other elements of compulsory femininity and would like to do it together and see how it feels.

this is not a competition - if you decide after a day you hate it and can't live without it, fine, but it would be really interesting to hear about, and I think it could advance our understanding of how this all works.

anyone else in?

btw, I am in a vile mood today so if anyone wants to come along to the thread and tell us we are just falling into the trap of thinking all feminists have to have hairy legs, or that actually they wax everything and are a still better feminist than meeeee, I will tell them to fuck off because if you don't 'get' this I can't be bothered explaining, either you get it or you don't

And who do you think drives consumerisim and advertising, Malificence?

Capitalism rules the developed world unfortunately, global conglomerates don't care who they make money from, no different to drug dealers in that respect.

I think it's a vicious circle actually, we all buy into having the perfect lifestyle to some extent and there seem to be just as many grooming products aimed at men nowadays, if we didn't succumb to all this crap, for example if everyone bought as few "beauty" products as I do then advertisers would soon see it as not viable.

I will be ready for this thread next year I hope. Right now 10 months post partum I'm hoping to spend the summer clawing back a tiny little bit of femininity. I do wish I wasn't so brainwashed but there it is. :(

Unless Nicky Haslam pronounces on it of course. I always read his anthropological commentaries with interest.

I've never heard of Nicky Haslam, on googling him he seems to be some sort of designer?

quite right UnrulySun, do it at the moment that works for you. It is not meant to be hair-shirty.

Let me restate, for lurkers:

This is not something you have to sign up to in order to be a feminist.
It is not a competition as to who is the least feminine and therefore the best feminist (LOL!)
It is just a bunch of women feeling that the moment has come to abandon a beauty practice (or other aspect of compulsory femininity) and see how it feels, as an experiment.

I am not trying to pressure anyone.

And if anyone has a problem with us doing this and posting about it, well tough, I can't be bothered to justify this to people who don't get it. If you are genuinely interested and want to know where we are coming from then read some basic books on feminism, maybe The Female Eunuch or The Beauty Myth or the relevant chapters of The Equality Illusion or Living Dolls.
If you have read all those things and still don't get it, then sorry, I can't help you

Interesting thread.

I am currently sporting full length leg hair that hasn't been touched since DS2 was born 4 months ago. I am kind of "saving it" for when the whether gets warmer and then I will shave or wax it. For the last few weeks I have been in a dilemma about whether to wax or shave it off prior to a dermatology appointment this morning to look at some suspect moles. Instictively I thought I must remove it because of the embarrassment of hairy legs. Then I got a grip of myself and decided not to bother after it occurred to me that of all the medical disciplines a dermatologist gets to see some really unpleasant skin conditions and hairy legs are a ridiculous thing to fixate on. It was fine and she didn't recoil in horror

SpiderWilliam.
hope your moles are ok, my dh often has to go to the dermatologist for the same reason. And he never ever shaves his legs first!

I would like to add for the record that I am standing behind you wearing a 'Go Sisters!' T-Shirt. Although I might have to sit down in a minute 'cos these heels are killing my feet.

This thread will stay light hearted I hope

I can feel my nipple hair sprouting already

Am I imagining it ?

I'm sure it will.
I've hidden my razor in case I forget - I'm dozy like that.

seth - lovely communal hand-holding type of thread i think!

As you know from previous thread, I'm a hairy legged, be-pubed swimsuit wearer :) I'll carry on doing that as per usual and cheer on anyone who wants to join me. The big thing for me is feeling brave enough to show off my hairy legs outside the pool. Not sure it is warm enough for that yet, but I did inadvertently flash them at the overly preened shop assistant in Dune the other day when trying on boots, and she still served me with a smile so I can't have horrified her too much. So I may try and do that a bit more over the next few months. I have nipple hairs which have got long (haven't removed them since began bf 6mo DD) and was contemplating removing them this weekend, but maybe I'll just leave them for now as DD and DH haven't complained, and nobody has recoiled in horror when I'm bf in public, so why would I need to remove them really?

I think for me, I might stop bothering to dye my hair. I do it a few times a year because I think it will make my hair look blonder, and feel somehow that mousey hair like mine needs to be a more definite colour, but really that is again just the whole 'women should look like Barbie' thing talking isn't it? So no more money wasted on hair dye for me, I think.

I'm not sure I could be brave enough to stop removing my chin and lip hair entirely - like malificence I don't like how it looks, and even if that is because of how society has forced me to view it, it feel so ingrained that I need to remove it. I am fairly lax (I go out with stubbly bits) but can never just let it live free and easy.

I'm a bit new to feminism (slowly grasping the ideologies).

I do get what and why you're doing what you're doing...

...but at the risk of you telling me to "fuck off", is it important to embrace a stereotype? If so, should I not be in a 1950s dress and pinny prancing about baking cakes?

Sorry if it seems a silly thing to ask...I'm slowly learning.

LG, my nipple hair will be visible from the Hubble Telescope pretty soon, so no need to post it on here

Oh god. I just couldn't do this.

I have medical conditions that mean I have androgenic alopecia and a very noticable beard and moustache.

I cannot imagine going out without my wig or without being fully plucked and shaved on my face. Legs I'm not so bothered about. But my god. I want to look like a woman. Is there really anything wrong with that?

I don't really understand what you're asking ladyofthemanor?
And I won't be joining this thread. I've read it all, some food for thought, but I see nothing wrong with how I present myself in a feminine manner. I really really don't. I wear makeup, I brush my hair, I shave my leg, I like to look pretty. So what?
For arguements sake, how woud a man approach doing something like this? Giving up elements of compulsory masculinity? What exactly would that entail?

Go sisters! But you may have to go without me, leg hair and armpit hair depilation are pretty much my only remaining feminine frivolities now I've quit wearing heels, and I'm not ready to buck the majority.

Baffled by the people who say that short hair is more high maintenance than long. DH and I both have short hair (mine is a "female" style, his is a "male" style), we both get it cut every six-eight weeks and shove it under the shower every morning; no hairdryers, no brush, one comb, and hugely lower maintenance than DD's long tangly mop. Not a feminist issue as far as I'm concerned (hair can be a FI of course, but it isn't for me).

Hmm, I think I 'get' it, but I think I am far too socialised in the way of leg hair removal / too much of a wuss to join in. Though I do find it depressing quite how universal it is. In the summer in London I have never seen a woman with hairy legs on the tube. As far as I remember, not once in over ten years. And the almost universal norm is legs that have been waxed and look like no hair ever grew there. Hope you enjoy your experiment!

I don't really know what I was asking.

Just the stereotype of feminists is "hairy legs/armpits try hard to look anything but pretty in pink" (for e.g.).

Surely the thing to do would be to challenge the stereotype...unless of course the stereotype is a mockery of women's choice and you are just embracing that.

Someone shoot me.

BooBooGlass - I think men are much less constrained by ideals than women are. A man can grow his hair or keep it short, he can have a beard or shave it off and he still fits within masculine ideals. Unless a man wears a skirt and shaves his legs, he still fits within the masculine frame. Whereas the frame for women is narrower. We think we have more choice because we can wear trousers or skirts but actually the 'rules' as to what counts as feminine are much more tightly constrained.

I think it's an interesting thing to think about, even if you decide to stick with the status quo

'I'm a bit new to feminism (slowly grasping the ideologies).'

Oh is it something that has to be taught then, like woodowrk or chicken keeping?

Who teaches it?

What qualifications do you need?

Is there a regulatory body?

Hmmm. I did this for a year or so in the mid-90s, for similar reasons - I think I occasionally shaved my underarms (was living in USA, so hot sweaty summers) but did not touch my leg hair. And never did any pube trimming back then anyway.

I don't think I want to do it just now, for reasons similar to Unruly; I am still feeling quite unfit, frazzled and unlike my usual physical self post-baby (despite the fact she's 10 months old [lazy fecker emoticon]) and things like shaving my legs now and again, and having some highlights, do help me feel a bit better, more "together" for whatever reason.

BUT I am really interested in the notion of trying it again in say a year's time, when I hope to be feeling more confident physically as a starting point. Because I want to compare how it would be this time around, to how it was when I was 20 years old and had the chutzpah of youth on my side.

(It was plain sailing, btw, and I did get some funny looks when I moved from my liberal US college town here to the UK, but I mostly laughed 'em off)