Resisting femininity experiment - who's in?

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

I was thought-provoked by the 'I'm a feminist but....' thread, particularly Dittany's posts, in which she talked about women who choose not to 'perform femininity'.

I posted on the other thread that I hugely object to all that bikini-line business but do still shave my legs. Am not sure why I do this, so I think I'm going to stop and see how it feels. It felt like a major issue when I was 20 or so but I actually suspect not shaving them now would make me feel more, rather than less, confident.

So I wondered if anyone else was thinking about giving up any beauty practices or other elements of compulsory femininity and would like to do it together and see how it feels.

this is not a competition - if you decide after a day you hate it and can't live without it, fine, but it would be really interesting to hear about, and I think it could advance our understanding of how this all works.

anyone else in?

btw, I am in a vile mood today so if anyone wants to come along to the thread and tell us we are just falling into the trap of thinking all feminists have to have hairy legs, or that actually they wax everything and are a still better feminist than meeeee, I will tell them to fuck off because if you don't 'get' this I can't be bothered explaining, either you get it or you don't

is that what those Fit-flop things are?
shoes that are designed to make walking more rather than less effort?

carmina, maybe the next time you 'suspect' something, you could check if your suspicion is correct.

I know several men who grow their beards as a non-conformist statement.

Yes Seth, apparently. And the MBT shoes are similar, and the Reebok ones which are designed to put you off balance so walking is harder work.

Several female colleagues of mine walk to work and wear MBTs and the funny Reeboks every day.

Fit flops are supposed to make you fitter. MBTs are supposed to improve posture (so they claim....)

Ah Doggie Carmina is here to help us see the error of our ways :)

Oh, I see
Light dawns

Doggie I am another current TV watcher and occasional meat eater who for most of my life have been neither and it's truly odd how people attack you for it. I also don't drive and people outside London find that completely unbelievable. :)

same on this thread. SAM started the thread saying 'you know how everyone thinks it's weird not to depilate...?' and two minutes later people turn up going 'you're not going to depilate? You're weird '

I used to get one of two responses: outright attack and ridicule, or guilty/defensive stuff like "we hardly ever eat meat, you know" or "I really don't watch much TV"

Also did you lose count of how many people told you that TV was educational??

DH passed his driving test last year and before that he alway had people saying things like "how did you manage to get to this point in your life without driving?" Even more incredible because he's a man I suppose.

OK Carmina one more time - the patriarchy imposes standards of grooming and appearance on BOTH men and women, as part of the rigid division of gender roles that the patriarchy depends on. The penalties for non-compliance TEND to be harsher for women than for men (see Sakura's spot on post about people with power being repulsed).

And the benefits of the patriarchy clearly accrue more to men than to women, so the advantage is still with them. But I have never met a feminist who would not argue that the patriarchy constrains men.

Do you see why saying 'but men shave their faaaces or women won't snog them' (patently untrue - I take it you've never been to hip n trendy East London!) does not prove that there is nothing sexist behind the standard of less and less body hair for women.

one thing you should remember is that 1000's of women are employed in the 'beauty' business - it's one of the few industries where women have carved out very lucrative careers - Ruby & Millie - Bharti Vyas, the body shop women who's name I can't remember -

I know a few feminists off mumsnet won't bring down the body shop - but if enough women rejected beauty products you could put some women out of business.

And we're back to the philosophy seminar I think! Are you going to ask me how I know the chair is really there in a minute.

Are you really saying that no industry - however harmful - should be challenged because it might put women out of work? (even if that outcome is, as you acknowledge, very unlikely).

This is just as good as last night!

Charity :)

The beauty business is not harmful - I'm a woman, I love make up and smelling nice - I want nice smooth legs because I don't want to look 'masculine' - I want to look feminine. There is nothing nicer than having a bath in expensive oils and smelling like a woman. I do all this for me as well as other people. I like it.

And yes, I know East London very well - but I wouldn't call it the beard capital of Europe.

Seldom do I get to continue a conversation AND point out some idiocy with the same point but here we are.

Does anyone remember the Harry Enfield sketch where the idiot challenges vegetarianism saying 'but what about all the cows? If people stop eating meat there won't be any cows'

I think, Carmina, that this may be the thrust of your latest effort.

I can think of plenty of things more fun than bathing in 'expensive oils', but each to their own.

But it's totally naive to say the beauty business isn't harmful. Where do you think all these images of unattainable 'female perfection' come from if not from that industry?

And I'm not a big fan of either The Body Shop or Bharti Vyas, tbh...

C'mon own up - which one of you is Carmina?

Oh for heaven's sake! 'Bathing in expensive oils' can be a sensuous pleasure for either gender, if it floats your boat. It is NOT comparable to a bikini wax, and no one gets shamed for not liking an oily bath, like they might for having hairy pits.

Am also LOL-ing at your belief that 'scented oils'= 'smelling like a women'. Surely you can see that it's a construct, not ACTUALLY the smell of a woman?

I dunno. I naturally smell of Castrol GTX. Or linseed oil in the week I have my period.

For the bazzillionth time Carmina hairy legs do not = masculine and smooth legs = feminine. How can you not see that?!?

It is a construct. Not a fact