Resisting femininity experiment - who's in?

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

I was thought-provoked by the 'I'm a feminist but....' thread, particularly Dittany's posts, in which she talked about women who choose not to 'perform femininity'.

I posted on the other thread that I hugely object to all that bikini-line business but do still shave my legs. Am not sure why I do this, so I think I'm going to stop and see how it feels. It felt like a major issue when I was 20 or so but I actually suspect not shaving them now would make me feel more, rather than less, confident.

So I wondered if anyone else was thinking about giving up any beauty practices or other elements of compulsory femininity and would like to do it together and see how it feels.

this is not a competition - if you decide after a day you hate it and can't live without it, fine, but it would be really interesting to hear about, and I think it could advance our understanding of how this all works.

anyone else in?

btw, I am in a vile mood today so if anyone wants to come along to the thread and tell us we are just falling into the trap of thinking all feminists have to have hairy legs, or that actually they wax everything and are a still better feminist than meeeee, I will tell them to fuck off because if you don't 'get' this I can't be bothered explaining, either you get it or you don't

"There is nothing nicer than having a bath in expensive oils".

What about a really great shag?

Hmmmmmm?

Or is sex all a bit human and sweaty for you

I can think of stacks of things better than bathing in expensive oils. Although I have to say that since the children I do appreciate it more than I used to. (Unless the little bleeders get in with me )

Charitygirl - You know exactly what I'm saying. Cath Kidston is targeting middle class women with more money than sense - and she's made her fortune out of it, is she to be admired more because she sells you kitchen products? - we have made her rich because we choose to buy a cup for £12 when we could buy the same one in Ikea for £2. there's constant pressure on women to have the right products, to live a certain way, I reject most of that crap - but I spend money on myself because I want to (try) and look nice.
Basically - what I'm saying is there's no point not shaving if you then go and buy into other areas of perceived perfect womanhood

What is your definition of "nice", carmina? And how do you think you came to that definition?

You sound a bit muddled. I want to help you out a bit.

So don't bother to do anything which challenges patriarchal capitalism unless you can give it all up and go and live in a yurt?

Right.

But where are we now with the leg shaving? Are you OK with that now? What about Galileo? I am confused about where he went and now we've got Cath Kidston to contend with.

I miss Nicky Haslam tbh.

Is Cath Kidston a feminist?

Has carmina just come right back on herself to say what we've been saying all along?

Is it beer time yet?

ROFL unrulysun

I got a lovely spotty oilcloth for the kitchen from Cath Kidston. It is absolutely gorgeous and brightens the place up no end.

this one here

Cath Kidston doesn't sell me kitchen products. I'm definitely more of an IKEA mug person. But let's assume you're using the generic 'you'. I agree the beauty industry is not the only industry pushing 'compulsory femininity' - that's the thing about the patriarchy, it is a TOTAL system. Mugs are, let's be frank, a red herrig here.

This thread has said 40,000 times that there is no scorn being directed at women who shave or do whatever it is constitutes trying to look nice for you. I'm a make up wearer. What we object to are your earlier comments (which you now appear to be back-pedalling from - a wise if disingenuous choice) making out that it is an objective fact that body hair on women is smelly and ugly, and that women should feel obliged to shave it off, and not complain about it.

Is it only 40,000 charitygirl?

I like that oilcloth. I also like the mugs. Everything else is a bit pink and flowery for me. The oilcloth might work to protect my beautiful new table which I bought in Retrouvious in Kensal Rise last week. An original 1950's piece I will have you know. Marvellous.

Where were we?

Tangent alert... I love Cath Kidston and have done for years. I do wonder why it is I like her floral designs so much. Everything else in my house is very plain or traditional 'masculine' colours - blue or black.

However, I liked Cath Kidston stuff years ago before it was everywhere and I've never seen it advertised (it probably is but I've never an advert for her stuff).

Nice choice, by the way, SAM!

.....tangent over

charity, you forgot lazy, smelly, ugly AND lazy. Frankly we are letting the side down......

AyeRobot: - I'm not muddled at all - but thanks for offering to help me out.

Charitygirl; - Does a matriarchy exist anywhere in the world? - Has it ever? ( and would a society run my mothers be any better? - I very much doubt it ) it's so easy to criticise isn't it, to blame a "system" for all the wrongs. - would you really do anything better or achieve more if you were in power? -

Nicola Horlick did an interview for the New Statesmen a few weeks ago - she was a director of a major bank at 28, and doesn't claim to have been
discriminated against. She thinks the reason there are so few women on the city is because they don't feel comfortable in a high-pressured and time demanding environment. How would you change that? paint the city pale lilac and have the working day finish at 3.30?

Nice talking to you CB - if you're really interested in your questions, I suggest you google and read widely on the internet, as I did whwn I was learning abot feminism.

Your charicature of what feminists want/believe - trust me, 'more money and power in the City' doesn't really sum it up - is so far from the reality that it seriously undermines your arguments. You're arguing against a straw man, which is why it hasn't been very hard to pick apart.

Stop everyone! Down tools. Nicola Horlick says she wasn't discriminated against so we can all go home* The fight is over. It turns out there wasn't a patriarchy after all, we just made it up because we wanted more things to be pastel coloured.

(actually I am* home obv but y'know in this Internet thingie we're all on a picket line outside a branch of Hooters with the banner - nice banner! - and I'm singing 'We Shall Overcome' in a quavering soprano as the night draws in)

The only Cath Kidston items in our house were bought by my husband, and I rarely shave my legs or wear make-up. I don't wear my wedding ring but my husband does.I am not sure what that says about my relationship or the degree of my feminism.

However as much as I realise that the reason I want to wear make-up occasionally, shave under my arms and pluck my eyebrows is because of pressures around me which tell me this is womanly/feminine/normal I still want to do it IYSWIM.

unrulysun

libra I just read your name as 'Libra shaving another biscuit' - I'm clearly getting obsessed with things being shaved

I've been reading her as Libra Shaving too ... sorry Libra!

Nurses with fake nails?? Even nail varnish harbours germs.

Englebert, your story abotu that man road-raging at your mother because he thought she was a man due to the shaved head is exactly why femininity and masculininty is reinforced to such an extent.
Because without it, you basically wouldn't be able to tell men and women apart at a glance.

And if you couldn't tell men and women apart then how would you know whether they are a member of the underclass or not? How do you know how to treat them. DO you treat them as an equal? Do you put them on a pedestal? Display overt misogyny? Ignore them? The cues of how to behave towards a particular human being are prompted by whether or not that person appears male or female.

Kids look pretty unisex in Japan, especially in their uniforms. It's quite confusing, I can tell you. It means you have to tread children as individuals not as boy-children and girl-children.

Why don't you want to hear about 'better childcare', CB?

The closest I ever came to death happened when I was trying to get out of a bath containing lovely scented oils . I finally managed to claw myself out of it, bruised all down one side but smelling like a Provencal lavender field (very womanly). I've got a bottle of 'African Savannah' for the next time I'm brave enough to ply the suds (wildebeest poo I suppose, and hot, dry grass) and I can't wait.

CB has provided a laugh...painting the city lilac - ah I see women only like pastels - well there's another criteria I clearly fail on :)