Resisting femininity experiment - who's in?

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

I was thought-provoked by the 'I'm a feminist but....' thread, particularly Dittany's posts, in which she talked about women who choose not to 'perform femininity'.

I posted on the other thread that I hugely object to all that bikini-line business but do still shave my legs. Am not sure why I do this, so I think I'm going to stop and see how it feels. It felt like a major issue when I was 20 or so but I actually suspect not shaving them now would make me feel more, rather than less, confident.

So I wondered if anyone else was thinking about giving up any beauty practices or other elements of compulsory femininity and would like to do it together and see how it feels.

this is not a competition - if you decide after a day you hate it and can't live without it, fine, but it would be really interesting to hear about, and I think it could advance our understanding of how this all works.

anyone else in?

btw, I am in a vile mood today so if anyone wants to come along to the thread and tell us we are just falling into the trap of thinking all feminists have to have hairy legs, or that actually they wax everything and are a still better feminist than meeeee, I will tell them to fuck off because if you don't 'get' this I can't be bothered explaining, either you get it or you don't

I have already been living the 'not shaving legs' bit of this for the last few weeks, cos I'm too lazy, but my legs are now feeling itchy and uncomfy under my jeans, and I'm getting little spots Good luck to you all though :)

See Isabella Rossellini in Wild at Heart - very hairy, very beautiful.

Also - Frida Kahlo

"I think it's about time 'femininity' was reclaimed as a word, actually. It seems to be synonymous with 'groomed, tweezed and compliant' these days which I think is nonsense. "

Someone said this way back in the thread and I totally agree. (disclaimer: if women want to groom and tweeze, well, they can)

I don't really shave much at all in winter - but I would tbh balk at leaving legs hairy if I was going to the gym etc, and I do keep it up more regularly in summer

I have one black curly chin hair and the rest of my chin is getting fuzzy too. I occasionally tweeze the chin hair but I just don't really think about it much and it's about 15mm long currently (when I notice it, mind you, I don't like it)

Since I hit 35 my pubes seem to grow mcuh longer and thicker than they used to so I trim for comfort.

DH likes a lot of body hair on women (and I am sure he's not the only one) so I sometimes do more grooming than he wants me to. If it was up to him I would be as hairy as possible everywhere.

In my time, I've had v short hair, and I rarely wear make up, and those things don't make me feel unfeminine. I have a few friends who will say things like "you're lucky you never got into make up" because they feel enslaved by it and that is pretty crap.

One thing I am doing at the moment is letting my grey come in. I haven't coloured my hair for months due to being skint and disliking doing it at home. It's not a lot of grey tbh but it's there, and I think I will leave it for now. If I was a guy, I wouldn't be reaching for the Just For Men, I'm sure of that.

carmina does love to tell us how we're doing this feminism lark all wrong, doesn't she?

Funny you should mention Frida, Tondelayo. I have big eyebrows that I used to pluck a lot. I didn't realise how much until I went a month without touching them because a) I was on a boat on the ocean so tweezers near my eyes was dangerous and b) because I wanted to see how they looked. They are GREAT. Although, I confess to still plucking to avoid the monobrow thing, so I have some way to go to entirely ditch the tweezers.

Am also currently hirsute of legs and bikini line, although they are always covered when in public at the moment. Oh, and am also sporting the greys in my head hair, which was also boat related as I knew I'd be washing it in sea water and didn't want the dye to go a mental colour For now, though, I'm going with them, even though I have interviews coming up.

It's important for me to challenge my sterotypes and conditioning by actually trying the alternative out for size for a time beyond that which is uncomfortable. At least then I can know that I've made an active choice.

I have been musing a lot lately on sexism around ageing (because I am feeling it, at 38).

Men are allowed to age, it seems, although I do see that pressure on men is increasing too. Women are not allowed.

So when I was young, I never gave this stuff a second thought. I was hairy and didn't wear make up and constantly wore jeans and DMs etc.

Now I'm getting older I am starting to feel invisible and it makes me feel more under pressure to titivate myself. Which is a bit depressing because I don't really WANT to do any of it.

I am polite - (( I'm not the one telling anyone to fuck off ))

I have a female friend - she Looks boyish - smells like a man ( she buys male products ) but she isn't hairy - so it's not just girly girls who think like me.

Anyway - good luck with it all.

Male hairy armpits and legs, carmina? Are they OK?

Yes

CB I think you are missing the point by ohhh several miles and everything you say is just another nail....

Yuk. I insist on my man having a back, sac and crack once a month and nose hair, ear hair and brows are taken care of once a week at the barbers.

And hair on his toes, Hully. Yuck.

Goes without saying.

this thread is really making me think.

How the heck can i be a feminist when i find even the mention of all this hair in 'unfeminine' places distasteful. Clearly i have a lot of work to do..

I pluck my eyebrows because they're about 2 inches thick if i don't. I shave my legs and armpits almost daily. I wear makeup a couple of times a week at best. Sometimes i get nose hairs.

I don't like the fact that i have to do all this work to myself just to avoid feeling ugly. And then i realise it's because i think i am ugly, and suspect that i still am anyway, even after all my efforts to conform. I don't think i should even be on this thread come to think of it...

I think if you already think it's an issue you're probably quite feminist

the people who puzzle me are the ones who call themselves feminists but won't accept that women's appearance has anything to do with feminism.

I remember very very clearly as a child of ten or so watching my mother put on lipstick, suffocate us all with Harmony, then put on high heels and get a stupid handbag, and swearing I would never ever do those things. They seemed so mad. And still do.

High heels. Have never understood why people balance on lumps of wood or spikes of plastic. And my mother has damaged her Achilles for good, she has been told by the doc never to wear heels again.

Hecate I didn't mean to make you feel bad about wanting to conform to the stereotype of a woman. We all do it to an extent and I think it takes a very very confident person to stand out. Don't feel bad about wanting to fit into the image because it is a real pressure, people do stare at people who differ from the norm, even really boring things like being shorter or taller than average or having hair in what is perceived to be the wrong place. I think this thread has come out of thinking - who says what is right or wrong? Who has defined women in such narrow terms?

I do think it is conditioning in a way though. If you were a man, having a bald head and a beard would hardly be noteworthy.

"High heels. Have never understood why people balance on lumps of wood or spikes of plastic"

hear hear Hully.

don't worry, Lenin, she said I look awful too. [shrug] If a little bit of body hair makes me look awful, then what would she make of birthmarks or scars?

perhaps I should hide my legs so as to avoid offending the carminas around me. I know! I'll buy my first pair of dungarees since I stopped wearing nappies. Hurrah! That will cover up those unsightly hairs nicely!

I used to balance on spikes of metal because if you are 6 inches shorter than everyone else in your job then any conversation held standing up will quite literally go over your head. Standing on tippy toes to make up the difference is both tiring and frowned upon, and bringing your own mini step ladder is also slightly inconvenient, but heels are a socially acceptable way to bring yourself up to within hailing distance of the dialogue.

Re the hairy pit smell, all those that are not shaving them for the first time it would be great if you could keep the smell thing in mind for me. I usually don't shave, and on the odd occasion I do, as well as the horrid growing back irritation, I am convinced they smell more. I really notice that my clothes need washing far more quickly with shaved pits than with au naturele. But I'm not happy with my sample size, so I'd like data from you all !

I think this is a fascinating debate. And it makes me wonder why I do some of the things I do, and not others. For example, I have a long-running 'argument' (it's mostly good-natured...mostly!) with a friend who waxes pretty much everything and thinks it's unfeminine not to. I can't stand the whole bikini-line/Brazilian/pre-pubescent obsession and do nothing but 'trim for comfort' as someone else said downthread.

She argues that a) it's unhygienic (there are not enough rolly-eye emoticons in the world for that one) and b) her husband likes it (with the added implication that I'm single therefore I don't need to worry). I have tried to draw a parallel between that and the fact that her husband gets genuinely annoyed if she's not in matching underwear every day, but it falls on deaf ears...

But... I do thread my eyebrows. I do shave my legs (more in the summer, though). But... I kinda like the way I smell when my armpits are a bit fuzzy (can you see why I'm single yet?!)

I have very short, boyish cropped hair and the grey is just starting to show through at the temples and I think it looks rather, well, actually rather intellectual and quite cool, but at the same time I know I'm going to dye it into oblivion because I don't want to be grey at 37.

And I usually have painted toenails all the time. Bright red. But I've not for a few months now. Probably that will change in the summer.

And I used to be a slave to makeup but I feel freer when I don't wear it, and my skin is actually beautiful and glowy under the slap, you know!

Just rambling, really, sorry!

I always thought hairy armpits was one of the factors in men (generally) having BO more prevalently and more noticeably than women. You need to get a good lather right down to the skin and wash really thoroughly (like shampooing head hair ) to smell clean and fresh, and the hairier the armpits, the more awkward that is and the longer it takes.

God, high heels. Instruments of torture, more like.

I won't deny they look lovely, but I'd rather be able to dance all night!

Can I just clarify - I'm not saying the smell of stale BO is appealing! Just that slightly musky smell can be quite nice. On a bloke, I'm afraid it's one of my top turn-ons... and it only happens when they're good and hairy

I absolutely know what you mean Lacuna. It's the smell of person rather than the smell of soap/body lotion/deodorant/other human smell-cancelling artificial scent.