I'm a feminist but...

[notenoughsocks]

I'm a feminist but I like crochet and baking....

I would like to know what you do/like that doesn't, as far as you know, tie in easily with most people's ideas about feminism and feminists. I started thinking about the idea when I kept reading posts that said something along the lines of 'I can't be a feminist because I'm a SAHM but [something very feminst]...'.

As this is my first ever thread (aside from the 'help - is this rash normal? sort) please go easy. Perhaps more towards the light hearted end of the spectrum. Just interested really in stereotypes of feminsts and feminism and ways to combat them.

WoTmania - I was thinking of that book too. Debbie Stoller talks in the front of it about how lots of people were so surprised at her knitting when she was a feminist, "shouldn't you be doing woodwork?" sort of thing. But why is knitting undervalued, and made fun of? Because it's seen as a woman's hobby.

And yeah, knitting, cross stitch and sewing are my things. But I don't cook, wash up or wear make up, so hopefully that cancels them out.

My head is starting to hurt a bit now. SaF, I see what you are saying, but I feel an inarticulate 'but' brewing inside me. The problem I find in thinking about these things clearly is that they are all so interlinked.

I have signed up for the 'resisting feminity' experiment in the hope that it might help me to answer at least some questions.

You could maybe argue that with prostitution and pornography the transactional nature of selling your body(often under varying states of implicit and explicit duress) - is different than free ownership of your own body, with which you choose to do whatever you may wish (whatever society may think).

Where I come unstuck though is I 'sell' another part of my body - my brain/intellect as intellectual service.... so how is this different from another part of my body as sexual service? Because for me it is different.

snowmama, it's different because you're not actually selling any part of you: you're selling the products of your intellect, not your intellect itself. So it's at one remove from selling your body. And, of course, a man could do exactly the same thing (I assume), so it's not gendered, whereas prostitution couldn't be more so.

My stereotypically unfeminist things are that I do all the cooking and love it, and I am a rotten driver. Really bad, I keep thinking I should do one of those advanced courses, but since we don't actually have a car it's always a long way down the priority list.

I was going to say that feminism and femininity are not mutually exclusive, but tortilla beat me to it, word for word!

The point is, SAF, is that we can't disentangle the way we want to look from what has influenced that, and the argument is that the patriarchy could well have rather heavily influenced us in terms of whether we like to shave our legs or not.

Yes, it's a relatively unimportant consequence of living in a patriarchal society, but it's a consequence none-the-less. Are we only ever allowed to discuss the 'big' issues on here?

No one is saying that feminists must reject the idea of women being hairless and made-up; we're just saying that we can choose how we want to look but be aware that it's not necessarily the way we would choose to look if we were not of this culture. We are conditioned and socialised whether we like it or not.

I have to say I'm constantly baffled by the notion that in order to be good feminists, women shouldn't do 'feminine' things, but should aspire to 'manly' things instead.

How on earth is it promoting equality for women for us to strive to be more like men? The point should be to make sure everyone values hobbies/interests traditionally seen as womanly, as much as those traditionally seen as manly. To the point where it's not seen as 'unmanly' for a man to want to bake cupcakes or wear makeup. We need to promote feminine things, surely, so that they are not longer seen as inferior to masculine things?

all posts above make perfect sense....and now I need to have a ponder before I respond more fully..

the problem is not feminity Annie, the problem is compulsory femininity.

when a woman can walk across a beach with visible body hair and not get any more nasty looks than a man who does the same, then feminism won't need to care about it any more.

MrsFizzyWig - no, Emmeline Pankhurst won't have worried about shaving her legs because women didn't shave their legs in those days.
As great legal and political victories for women were won, the patriarchy fought back by worsening the pressures on women to look good. Women in Pankhurst's day also didn't wear such high heels or have cosmetic surgery. They did wear corsets and that was seen as a feminist issue too.

Why is everyone coming on here and saying that this thread is suggesting that to be a feminist you have to reject femininity?

Annie - your question has already been asked, and answered, a few times on this thread.

I'll have to disagree with you there, FB. I see lots of discussions on baking, facial hair, bikini lines and driving skills, but only one post even vaguely like mine, which is WoTmania's post of 13:11:59.

So I'll right back at you. Why the need to be insulting anyway?

Annie. I am not saying (and I hope it never came across like that) that feminists should necessarily reject feminity. It was, sort of, my original point.

I think a lot of the thread has been about what we do and don't do and why.

It was never my intention to suggest, as you put it, "that in order to be good feminists, women shouldn't do 'feminine' things, but should aspire to 'manly' things instead."

In fact, it is precisley that sort of thing that made me think about starting this thread.

notenoughsocks - my post certainly wasn't referring to you specifically, and I didn't read your post as saying that feminists can't be feminine! It was just random ramblings about attitudes I've encountered.