I'm a feminist but...

[notenoughsocks]

I'm a feminist but I like crochet and baking....

I would like to know what you do/like that doesn't, as far as you know, tie in easily with most people's ideas about feminism and feminists. I started thinking about the idea when I kept reading posts that said something along the lines of 'I can't be a feminist because I'm a SAHM but [something very feminst]...'.

As this is my first ever thread (aside from the 'help - is this rash normal? sort) please go easy. Perhaps more towards the light hearted end of the spectrum. Just interested really in stereotypes of feminsts and feminism and ways to combat them.

One of the most damaging stereotypes about feminists is that they have no sense of humour. There seems no room for fun when you are boycotting 1000 companies and knitting your own lentils.

Or that feminists are only concerned with women in developed countries.

I think these things put people off self identifying as feminists.

notenoughsocks - much like most things, when women do them they are undervalued and underpaid (seamstress, cook), when men do them they are highly skilled and prized (tailor, chef)

I don't think carpentary is well paid! (My brother worked as one) Plumbing, electrician yes.

Albrecht. Yes. Dead right about the sense of humour. I'm a feminist but I do laugh and even sometimes attempt to tell a joke.

(can't tell you the joy I felt when Bill Bailey donned one of Fawcett's 'This is what a feminist looks like T-shirts)

I agree that is is easier to say "I am a feminist, but it's okay because, look, I am still pretty and enjoy sewing and baking". There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a pretty feminist who enjoys sewing and baking, but I do baulk sometimes at the way feminists feel they need to make feminism palatable. Just to be clear, I know exactly why we do it and I can even see that in some ways it helps further the cause. I just feel frustrated that I can't be a dungaree wearing, hair legged faminist without being judged harshly for that, and having my views taken less seriously too.

I was at the dreg end of a party recently and the talk turned to feminism. I cheerfully declared myself to be a feminist. People pointed out that I am a SAHM who bakes and sews, and I like pretty clothes therefore I couldn't be a feminist. I insisted that I am one. A real one. Even quite a cross one at times. "Yes," they insisted, "but not a 'hairy legged feminist'". I pointed out that beneath my rather lovely pink swishy skirt my legs were indeed hairy. And what of it? No one really knew what to say. It actually made people uncomfortable to realise that my legs were not bald.

WTF?

This is a bit of a half formulated thought, so I appologise if I have not thought it through properly:

It seems that the biggest stereotypes that exist now relate to women's appearance, rather than behaviour.

I work in what was traditionally a male dominated environment, which requires me to be forceful and opinionated, and to take the lead in group situations.

In my free time, I enjoy DIY, woodwork, and martial arts (as well as cookery and other more traditionally female crafts).

I behave in quite a dominant way in a group situation, and if faced with sexist/ abusive behaviour in a social or public situation, will confront it head on.

I really cannot say that I have ever had any problem with doing what I want in a work or hobby sphere.

However, despite feeling comfortable in controverting these typical stereotypes, I feel the need to spend quite a lot of time on hair depletion, wear make-up for work or to go out socialising, and wear heels and close-fitting clothing.

It seems that for me, taboos about appearance are harder to overcome than taboos about behaviour.

I also wonder sometimes whether I am able to get away with being quite dominant because I am lucky to fall into a stereotype of being tall (but not too tall), blond, slim but with large boobs, and am considered attractive. ie, being close to what the patriarchy sees as an ideal female form gives me more leeway to step outside what is expected behaviour.

Stereotypes work because the world is big and complex and we don't have enough time to investigate it. So its easier to say, ok she has a pink skirt on so probably isn't a feminist but that other one has dungarees on so probably is.

We are all guilty of it, I bet. If not about feminism then about folk music or bird watching or football players. Its much easier to slot people into preformed identities than consider that each person has a multifaceted identity that we may only see part of.

This is very interesting. I'm an artist and illustrator, i also work with wood and glass (i have a shed ) - and one thing i can say is that i'm a stereotypical arty type (think patchwork trousers and tie dye).

I am also a feminist.

Women in the creative arts have a problem in that the expectation is that they are doing it for a little bit of pocket money in general. You only have to look at the arts and craft section on MN to see that - it's not somewhere i feel i fit in.

If a man tells you he is an artist and illustrator people think he's doing well, supporting his family financially, lots of contacts etc. If a woman does it, it doesn't seem to matter if she doesn't take it so seriously. You don't get many men standing at craft fairs selling bits and bobs week in week out.

Hope that made sense

Thistledew I would guess you are right that looking that way, people find it easy to listen to you. Theres that research that conventionally attractive people get paid more than the uglies?

But also, appearance is behaviour because you have to work hard to get rid of that hair, to fnd the right clothes - so style and beauty is an activity for women as well as a look.

dittany This is a person question so feel free to ignore but what about going swimming?

I also am almost always in trousers or thick tights (its bloody cold round here) but swimming costumes do require the baring of my hairy legs.

Lots of sense Rusty Rainbow. your shed.

Ah but do you think breasts and pubes aren't valuable because they belong to women?

Dittany. Hope you don't mind. But the misunderstanding about the bikiniline has given me a proper proper belly laugh. I can't stop smiling. . As a gesture of laughing 'with' not 'at you' - I remember thinking that tampons might be a form of contraception. (I know it is not as funny but is all I can think of at the mo).

Oddly - although I shave my legs, I don't worry about my pubes too much. I just 'tuck them in' a bit before I get in and out of the pool.

I might worry about mine a bit more if i could see them

I go swimming with hairy bits.
The whole pube removal thing just annoys me too much, I mean how f*cking dare the patriarchy tell me there is something wrong with having pubes? How dare they?

I hate the way it looks if I 'trim' - I don't want stubble and I don't want nasty bumps from waxing, so I would rather weather a few nasty looks. Fortunately as I am short sighted and go swimming without glasses on I can't see whether people are looking at me or not

I must admit I have occasionally thought about getting a swimsuit cut lower in the legs but actual pube removal is a line in the sand I am no longer prepared to cross. I do shave my legs though.

(why have I hedged this post so much with excuses, 'I don't shave my pubes BUT'? )

Actually - serious face - I have just thought that perhaps the reason I shave my legs but don't worry about my pubes has a lot to do with what thistledew said.

I happily and genuinely am not too worried about my appearance. I don't wear make up but there are certain things that help me to 'function more effectively' [read get my own way/be listened to etc - I can't put it more clearly than that but I think thistledew said it well]. Not freaking people out with hairy legs is one of those ways. But, perhaps because it has become habbit, I also now much prefer my legs to be non hairy. Back to that problem of separtaing out the 'real me'...

In a swimming pool however, the only thing I am trying to achieve is fun or a level of fitness. Even if people do worry about my pubes there is nothing they can do to make it more difficult for me to achieve those aims - short of pretty direct abuse.

You can only call yourself a feminist if your cupcakes/muffins/crochet/shaving skills etc are politically, socially and economically equal to a mans!!
I'd say most of mine are better!!