I'm a feminist but...

[notenoughsocks]

I'm a feminist but I like crochet and baking....

I would like to know what you do/like that doesn't, as far as you know, tie in easily with most people's ideas about feminism and feminists. I started thinking about the idea when I kept reading posts that said something along the lines of 'I can't be a feminist because I'm a SAHM but [something very feminst]...'.

As this is my first ever thread (aside from the 'help - is this rash normal? sort) please go easy. Perhaps more towards the light hearted end of the spectrum. Just interested really in stereotypes of feminsts and feminism and ways to combat them.

PS - thanks for all your replies

I buy things from Cath Kidston and get manicures and played with dolls when I was little.

I have no problem reconciling this with my feminism, but I totally get this thread, OP!

A (male) colleague today was takig the piss out of me for something and then bizarrely turned it into an assumption that I was one of those woman who enjoy gender stereotyping (ooo I can't park because I am too busy thinking about shoes! etc)

Think he may have been flirting with me. He was vvv surprised when I laughed and told him a few of my anti-gender stereotypig feelings. He then cooed 'Ooo so are you pretending to be one of those femi-nazis'? (again believe he was flirting! How odd!)

A level stare changed the tone of the office

PS I actually can't park and do like shoes, but this has f*ck all to do with my ownership of a uterus

I think I'm a feminist.

I'm a professional, working in a male dominated environment (ortho surgeon), I live in my own place (not at home with parents) despite being single. I choose when I can see DBoyf (and I'll call him D Boyf, DP or even his real name if I want to), and have half the available say in what we do (feminist doesn't equal dictator, after all) I choose if he stays at my place or I go to his (again not entirely unilaterally - we both have a veto!) & control my own fertility until the time is right for me us.

I also sew, knit, bake, embroider, wear pink, watch rom-coms, love Sophie Kinsella and similar authors, glee, Kirstie's homemade home etc.

Because I am able to choose this lifestyle, I can choose to follow my homey hobbies. This is totally different from doing these things because that's all that girls are allowed to do in a society (eg 200yrs ago in uk, other places now). I even made marmalade, chutney and sloe gin for Christmas pressies last year.

For me feminism is about choice and opportunity. It doesn't make sense to close off activities and choices at the same time - it doesn't matter who or what gender an oppressor is, if choice is curtailed, that's what I'm against!

I think the point is, though, that we must recognise that some of the stereotypically female things we like doing, we like because of the patriarchy socialising us into liking them...and some aren't - some we just like and would like despite the patriarchy.

But it's not right to say that all the choices we make are truly, genuinely, made because we would want to do those things if we weren't brought up in a patriarchal society. Yes, a few of us might like to shave our legs...but most of us wouldn't bother, I think. And maybe some men would do it.

Some of us would like sewing...others wouldn't...and more men would.

You can't deny that liking Cath Kidston etc. might just be because of gender stereotyping from birth.

the 'ooooh, how can you do that and still be a feminist?' definitely comes from outside feminism IME. When I was a student I was informed by a bloke once that I shouldn't be reading Viz if I was a feminist. (Like he knew anything about feminism, or gave a shit about it )
In fact re some of the stuff, like crafty hobbies, feminists are even more likely to value it as they see it in a political context as a women's skill that has been devalued in the past because it was done by women.

I am actually finding this thread quite thought-provoking. I don't have the slightest bit of embarrassment over my patchwork and baking, and if anyone told me I shouldn't be doing it I would just laugh. OTOH the "male" stuff I am crap at (probably just driving in my case, I am quite good at DIY) I am probably more embarrassed about than I would be if I wasn't a feminist. Because then I would just be able to go 'Tee hee, it's my poor spatial awareness due to my female brain, lucky me having a big strong dh who can do all that!'

I always let DH drive too, when we are both in the car

I'm not embarrassed by enjoying sewing...in fact I'm quite proud of the fact I can do it, considering the number of people who can't!

I am embarrassed that I have a culturally conditioned reaction to manly men in films etc. . I do fancy my DH too, though, and he's scared of spiders and has never rescued me from anything in my life!

Flamingo - I agree; I think the point is, we don't have tucked away somewhere an authentic 'me' that is ourselves untainted by the patriarchy, we are a bundle of all our influences and we can't separate out what is influenced by sexism and what isn't.

Ooh, me too, Peter. But then I actually don't enjoy driving in particular, and DH could live in a car if it were possible! Very odd!

I certainly don't defer to him driving because he's a man and 'better at it than me'.

I like to have a kip, while he drives

Thankyou Porpoise

Flamingo, that definitely sounds more like what I meant than what I actually wrote. You are clearly better at putting the words in a coherent sentence and stuff.

And I agree with you, Seth!

It's just I get a bit irritated when people totally deny the premise that the patriarchy has influenced some of what they like/do not like. Of course we can't unpick it, but denying it is wrong.

My brother did this - he said it was extremely patronising to suggest that he wasn't his own person in terms of his likes and dislikes, and that his enjoyment of aggressive films might just be influenced by the society he's been brought up in. But it's very naive to think that you haven't been influenced by every single little thing that's touched your life in one way or another.

And it's not just patriarchy. Institutionalised schooling does it too...oh yes, not allowed to talk about HE on here, am I? ; and the idea of hierarchy; and capitalism; and, and, and...

I know very well I want a nice new shiny laptop because I'm constantly being told I do, by adverts, family, friends, tv programmes, etc. - not overtly, and not consciously. I also know that it's unlikely I would be so desperate for one if I were living in a society which didn't value expensive, electronic items.

'It's just I get a bit irritated when people totally deny the premise that the patriarchy has influenced some of what they like/do not like. Of course we can't unpick it, but denying it is wrong.'

Absolutely! And it comes up all the time on here wrt plastic surgery, waxing your fanjo etc, when people think we are saying that we, the feminists, are superior beings immune to patriarchal influences while everyone else is a passive dupe of the patriarchy. Whereas in fact what we are trying to say is yes it is a choice to shave your pubes but it is a choice made in a context and under certain cultural influences and yes we feminists are also making choices in a context.

this is quite handy - in future we will be able to point people back to this thread as proof that feminists are not exempting themselves from patriarchal influences.

if your breasts are physically uncomfortable, that is a medical and not a social scenario though, surely ?

I have 3 friends that have had reductions for chronic backache, pain in the breasts and the fact that their breasts were too physically big for their frame

I think occassionally it is possible to unpick the patriarchy/capitalism/institutionalisation/etc.-influenced parts of yourself, but it takes a lot of honesty and self-awareness. I think they can be identified by a kind of uncomfortable feeling about them, like there's a sort of conflict going on.

An obvious example would be me shaving my legs and all the time I'm actually doing it, wishing I bloody didn't have to!

And I've listened to mothers who, after talking for nearly an hour about their experiences, being to realise that they are suffering with post-natal depression not because they're breastfeeding, but because they're trying to stop because everyone is telling them that the breastfeeding is causing the PND.

A less obvious example would be the fact that I went into nursing because (I now know) my family used to say 'ooh, you'd be such a good nurse!' and my mum was a nurse. I didn't work hard at my degree and, while I enjoyed it, I didn't love it, and didn't ever feel quite right about it. So I believe now that that wasn't really 'me', as it were...just the influenced bit of me.

I feel very strongly about this issue, actually, and, consequently, DH and I work really hard to try to minimise any influences on our children's personalities and likes/dislikes. We try hard not to say 'you'd be really good at...' or 'you really enjoy...' or to be overheard talking about them - we don't do a very good job of it, I have to say, but probably better than we would if we weren't trying not to IYSWIM. But I really want to create an environment where our children can grow into the people they were really meant to be IYSWIM.

swallowedAfly I know what you mean about plastic surgery (I have a scar over my boobs). You are double unhappy because you are unhappy about your boobs (which I bet are lovely ) and unhappy about feeling unhappy about it.

I like baking
I love perfume and buy beauty lotions and potions. And then I am amazed when they do not transform me into Angelina Jolie.
I like ironing, I find it therapeutic. Same with knitting.
I like dh to do things with lump hammers and roof felting and all that kind of business. And take out the bin on bin day.
I am quite fond of pink.

But when I read Marilyn French's The Womens' Room at the age of 15, there was no turning back. Dooooooomed...