I'm a feminist but...

[notenoughsocks]

I'm a feminist but I like crochet and baking....

I would like to know what you do/like that doesn't, as far as you know, tie in easily with most people's ideas about feminism and feminists. I started thinking about the idea when I kept reading posts that said something along the lines of 'I can't be a feminist because I'm a SAHM but [something very feminst]...'.

As this is my first ever thread (aside from the 'help - is this rash normal? sort) please go easy. Perhaps more towards the light hearted end of the spectrum. Just interested really in stereotypes of feminsts and feminism and ways to combat them.

Found it

"So often I am told, directly or indirectly, that a woman?s place ? and especially a mother?s place ? is in the home looking after her family. Which is a lie. And when a woman reinforces that lie by actively choosing to take up that place, it pisses me off."

"It?s like not voting.
It?s like one in the eye for all the women who fought to free their sisters from household drudgery and servitude."

"Everything we do has value simply because we want to do it."

Sorry to repeat it - but I love that quote.

Yes the freedom to go out looking like a bag lady is great and liberating.

I don't find the stereotype of hairy women revolting, but I do find them intimidating. Not entirely sure why.

Perhaps it is to do with what I said earlier about still fighting for a place within the patriarchy by conforming to norms of appearance. A woman who does not do that is presenting a challenge to my own sense of security in how I am perceived by society. That is a big thing to let go of.

.. just realised I pressed send and missed some posts.

I actually spend a significant proportion of my life hairy and without make up, so don't have any negative connotations of it.

I guess my point is I also enjoy the perfomance (which is I see it) of femininity (which has been quite a guilty pleasure for a while). So I guess my point was it was not in opposition to not wearing make up etc....

Swallowed - re work/career. I enjoy working it give me a sense of satisfaction, but that is purely personal.

Dittany, I really hear what you are saying (I think/hop) but I don't know if I have the answers to your questions. I think I have learnt something from this thread (thanks all btw).

Being revolted by hair and no-make up is pretty bad isn't it? Either on oneself or other people

I am not revolted by hair and no make up. (Actually, I have never worn make up but that is beside the point). But, it is not quite the same as my saying 'I prefer my legs to be smooth and without hair. I recognise that this preference has been shaped for me but in this particular case, I can't seem to unshape it. Somebody else said it earlier, and it made me think - 'Is there a genuine 'me' untainted by the patriarchy - and is it a superior 'me'. How far can I separate myself from my life's experiences?'

Also - I think that not only are there many sorts of feminisms and feminists - but feminism is can be a personal journey as well as a politcal movement. Although there might not be an 'end' there are certainly various differnt points along that road.

PS - I don't feel in the slightest revolted by any sterotypical feminists, but I think I said that bit already. (sorry, that comes out a bit fippant, but I don't know how else to phrase it). - emoticon added to ensure tone was not flippant.

Thistledew - do you find them intimidating because they challenge you to consider why you don't allow yourself to be naturally hairy yourself?

It will be obvious I've only read the first few posts and conversation has probably movewd on but...

Have you read the Stitch and Bitch knitting book? It's written by a feminist. I hate the way some people regard it as 'unfeminist' to be a SAHM, knit, sew etc.

It's just another way 'womens' work' has been devalued by society. Society seems to expect girls to either be pretty pink and pathetic or 'tomboys' and aspire to be like boys/men. Sewing, knitting, crochet etc are all ineresting, skilled, productive occupations.
One of DH's friends played WoW and is CFBC and rather looks down on me because I have children and do 'girly' things like knit. Now, DH and my Dad can both knit as can BiL (he used to knit jumpers for his teddies. IOn my eyes his one redeeming factor) my DC (2DS one DD) will all learn how to knit, sew, cook do housework, chop logs change lightbulbs garden etc.

FB - I think it is to a degree, but is also more than that.

On a personal level, I was quite an ugly duckling as a teenager, and very unpopular. I kind of grew into myself in my late teens/early twenties, and soon, unfortunately, found that I could use the way I looked as a means of gaining popularity with men, in particular.

However, I do think that there is something of a base instinct (or maybe a deeply ingrained patriarchal trend) to present oneself in a way that makes you most attractive to potential mates. The idea that you can challenge or change this, I think makes many people feel quite uncomfortable. Hence why both men and women have such approbation for 'hairy-legged feminist lesbians'.

It is hard to disentangle how much of this is animal instinct and how much is a creation of a patriarchal society.

If anyone is thinking of resisting the pressure to perform femininity a little bit more, I have started a thread

I've got the worst one - I'm a rubbish driver. Really does embarrass me and let down the sisterhood but there you go.

I also find Bill Hicks and Reginald D. Hunter hilarious. And I love Hemingway and my favourite film directors are Hitchcock & Roman Polanski.

But I really am a feminist.

Does anybody anywhere have a good feminist take on this driving thing? It keeps coming up.

oh, driving!
I have never seen a feminist take on it but I was thinking about it the other week after a talk to my SIL who, like me, is a scared driver.

the context was that a friend of ours was tragically killed less than two weeks after passing her test. It is not entirely clear what happened but it looked at that point like the most likely scenario was that someone had cut her up a bit and she had panicked, failed to hold her road position and come off the road.
SIL and I were discussing how we know so many women who have trouble with driving and how it is often this aspect, the having to assert yourself in space, that women struggle with.
We decided, thinking about it, that it makes sense that women should struggle with this as you have to behave in a different way to the way you behave with other pedestrians when walking along the street: women, more than men, constantly cede position, step back to let people through, etc. When you are driving you are fighting against these instincts.

I don't know if there is anything at all in this but it seemed to me to partially explain the fear.
Of course there is also the fact that boys are conditioned to drive from very early on. Ds1 has vehicles on practically all his clothes!

and of course a wide-ranging cultural belief that women can't drive as well as men would have an effect.

Interesting that this has started a debate.

In my specific case it's not a culturally conditioned problem - driving wise. I come from a long line of motoring experts of both sexes - Grandfather a racing driver, aunt ran a rally team, mum worked in her dad's business as assistant mechanic.

I'm just shit and having lived in city centres for 18 odd years never really had the day to day practice. Both my sisters are good drivers.

I love what FlamingoBingo says about SAHMs. I am one too and I love it. I consider myself very lucky to be one, but I hate it when people (mostly women who presumably are also feminists) judge me badly for it!

Btw, do you think Emmaline Pankhurst worried about shaving her legs??? Seems feminism still has along way to go!!

Interstingly, will feminism only have achieved its aims when it ceases to exist? Because there is no such thing as 'hominism'

Thats what I meant, we can only be equal to a man (def of feminism) when we stop worrying about it, or what others think, not stop doing it. Because men(in general) don't worry about it!