Really? Is it just me who doesn't get the Daniel Craig drag thing?

[Adair]

James Bond. Hardly most enlightened character.

Dressing up as 'a woman' which as we all know involves long hair, lipstick, high heels and a dress .

So an ad for International Womens Day that doesn't actually feature any women (well, the voiceover - but no-one is mentioning that).

I can't comment on the whole gender/sex debate that is going on. However, I loved the video.

My take on it was that Judi Dench asked before Daniel Craig changed something along the lines of do you know what it is to be a woman? He then went and changed into the stereo-typical representation of a woman - heels, dress long hair, make up, jewellery etc.

Judi Dench ignored this totally and continued with some pretty horrific statistics about what it is to be a woman - thye domestic abuse statistic, females attacked on the way to school etc. Craig then realised what a complete tosser he was for presuming being a woman was all about the way we look and removed wig.

Are we over-analysing this?

I bet they didn't come up with half these ideas...

I like your take on it Jacqueline, will have another look at it (when i don;t have precariously sleeping newborn on me ).

Yes if babies are born hermaphrodite, which some are, why don't they just leave them alone? Why can't they choose their own identity and align themselves with whoever they feel comfortable with or just ahve a third sex?

Children start choosing their gender very early on - by about 2 isn't it? Plenty of time for them to get used to being a girl/ boy/ other sex human.

And it's shocking how trans women cynically use the existence of intersex babies/people to pretend that you can erase your chromozonal make-up.
When you can't.
It's a lie
in order to muddy the waters
A cynical lie
At the expense of hemaphrodites
To further the ends of trans women

I don't think hermaphrodites is the right term, it's intersex. Hermaphrodites can reproduce without mating with anyone, all by themselves, which is pretty clever, but I don't think humans can do it!

The sex/gender thing is very interesting. I just typed a load of stuff and then realised that I was getting confused over sex and gender and so have rethought. I think that gender is on a continuum, totally. As much as gender is a social construct (men are like this and women are like that) the features of it are things that people actually want to do - grooming, being strong, maths, empathising, etc etc. In practice most people are a mix of the traits that are labelled "male" or "female".

Not sure where I'm going with this

Like Len I feel that for individual people, everyone should be able to live how they choose and label themselves how they wish, without discrimination or fear or anything like that.

When it comes to groups as a whole, in the same way that when I say "men" I don't mean "that actual bloke over there", when it comes to thinking about MTF trans as a group, there are problems for feminists, Again though it's not talking about "that person over there" - who I want to have a free and happy life, but from a political/theoretical POV, there are problems.

Personally I think that if someone has been raised as a female and treated as a female all their life then they almost certainly "get it". I do not think that someone who has been born male and raised male is really going to "get it". They will get how awful it is to grow up knowing you're different, and if they fancy males then they will get the feeling of having a different sexuality to the mainstream and may have experienced abuse and so on because of that.... I think that growing up knowing that you are different and feeling wrong in your body must be awful. However I don't think that experience is the same as growing up female and experiencing that particular, pervasive, and total experience. All the women n the country have been steeped in it, many don't even notice it, most play along even if they do notice. Most women have been sexually assaulted, and all will have been treated in a certain way by men all their life. I honestly don't think that someone raised as a man would absolutely get it, I mean really feel it. How could they?

So from my POV like men who support feminism that's all well and good, and for MTF trans people to support feminism that's great too but they shouldn't be setting the agenda. FTM trans people OTOH of course will get what it's all about. I know that this view is seen as discriminatory to many, but surely it's just logical?

I have got a horrible feeling I am wrong about what hermaphrodite means BTW!

I don't think people can be true hermaphrodites though, but I can't remember why

Len I agree that "gestational carriers" is an appalling term.

Adair Thank you for posting. The impact is lost on me.

I found it offensive and very negative.

All those statistics - saying women are scared all the time is hardly appealing, is it the case that we should all just slit our wrists and give up because women have such a hard time and a bad deal!

Why couldn't they have used a female actor?

. I'm not one for Dove products either.

Also meant to say that I think jacqueline is onto something with the interpretation, that makes perfect sense now someone's said it! Mind you if no-one "got" it then that's not great is it.

very interesting sardine and jacqueline... very interesting.

Why the eyebrow?

In biology hermaphrodite means it (plant or animal) has both (full) male and female reproductive organs and can reproduce as either male or female. I guess the term has been adopted to describe humans but is inaccurate at least biologically 'cos they/we can't self -reproduce and I don't think they have 100% both.
Or something.

What you wrote SardineQueen I have been trying and failing to write since yesterday. I agree that unless you are genetically female you cannot know what it is like to be female (same goes for men and women to men transsexuals).
I want to write more but can't find the right way of saying it.

So what you're saying is gender is more how we act and are raised rather than what we are genetically?

The term 'gestational carrier' has all sorts of frightening implications - I heard it being used on some chat show (I don't normally watch them BTW) and it brings to mind the possibility of women being used to produce children like a battery hen.

The eyebrow means I am thinking it through. hmmm.

Oh please, get a life.

Who are you talking to, StreetWiseHotMum? And why in such an aggressive way?

is usually meant to mean sceptical (in fact it says so next to the emoticon), or to use a more colloquial phrase, "what a load of shit".

If you have genuinely been using it to mean "I'm thinking about it" then you are going to end up in quite a bit of trouble!

Moi, aggressive ? now that is funny.

Frankly, reading this thread makes me embarassed to be a woman. So much bitterness.

If Daniel Craig putting a blonde wig on gets people into this much of a lather and onto the train this has taken, well words fail me.

Thanks to this sort of thinking I will now have to work longer when i go back to work, be made to feel being a sahm makes me inadequate, my car insurance will cost more....the list goes on.

Vive la difference !