An 'interesting' conversation with my MIL about rape

[thefinerthingsinlife]

I am shocked that a woman who is intellegent believes the rape myths put forward for example "well there are women who go out for a good time" "look at all those women who falsely accuse men of rape" "well if she's drunk what does she expect".

After explain why these views are all aiding rapists and why the patriarchy promote this myths she seem top understand.

But how the hell are we meant to challenge these view when the patriarchy have made these views so 'believable'

Women are only in danger when they are drunk - or when they are sober - if the man they are in company with, is a RAPIST.

Exactly!!!! Why don't people undetand this

I don't think men are stupid and don't know what rape is but things like if a person is drunk you are better not having any sexual contact with them at all unless you know for sure that they are of a clear enough mind to make that decision and if you don't know for sure simply do not go there even if it is your partner.

BoffinMum - have you read that link that QuodLibet posted? You really should, it's brilliant.

I've not seen that before QL so thank you for posting it. :)

Omg, have you seen this thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1159290-Man-cleared-of-rape-because-he-was-too-drunk-to-realise-which-bed-he-was-in

Do you think it's any wonder that women don't report rape or want to see it through to court when this sort of this goes on?

I do think that teenagers/young adults, both male and female, could do with these concepts being openly discussed (and the consent line as defined above unequivocably drawn). It was never part of my education and it should have been - it's a time when hormones are driving you in all sorts of crazy and illogical directions and I think it's a time when lots of sexual habits/power dynamics are formed which stick. I think only really really conscientious, reinforced, specific teaching of these concepts is enough to override the subconscious social messages that are all over the place in our still-very-patriarchal culture.

I think women need to be taught about unashamedly asserting their boundaries at the same time as boys are taught that active, clear minded consent is necessary before any kind of physical sexual contact.

Yes I did see it and I have posted in that thread. As I said in the thread itself it was a jury that aquited him and I don't see how they could have if the dm story is fact. It is wrong but what I am saying is that cases like this shouldn't discourage woman from reporting and following through with the prosecution. Not all jury are the same people. I am waiting to see if there are any more reports that can shed anymore light on this story.

Last post directed at kar btw sorry.

omg, there are so many cases like this where rapists are acquited in the strangest circumstances. And this is one of the strong cases that actually made it to court. This one had at least two witnesses, when most rape cases have only one.

Can you imagine how that poor woman must feel now? I'll bet she wishes that she'd never had gone through with it.

Yes I know that kar but it is the same for all courts and all crimes there are instances where the jury or judiciary make judgements that are grossly unfair and makes them seem blind to what is actually going on. This should not deter victims from coming foward and prosecuting.

It's a bit difficult to discuss it when people round on you for having considered opinions.

"it was a jury that aquited him and I don't see how they could have if the dm story is fact."

Because juries bend over backwards to let rapists go free, it's quite simple.

I don't know why people are so confused about it, most rapists walk free, that is a fact that even non-feminists don't deny.

Boffinmum, where has anyone rounded on you? As far as I can see, they have asked you questions about your view and put an opposing view forward. Why do you define that as being rounded upon?

omg, you are being very naive. Of course it deters women from coming forward. One of the worst things about being raped is nobody believes you. This woman was very brave and faced that head on. She reported her attacker and took him to court. And then the jury told her that they didn't believe her even though the rapist's story is perfectly consistent with him raping her.

How often does that happen with any other crime? Has it ever happened with another crime?

Forgive me, but I do feel a little as there is an apparent hegemony of people here with permissible views and I have been held up one or two times as having unenlightened ones. I am, in fact, feeling a little told off. I appreciate that was probably not the intention.

Sorry, obviously he is not a rapist. He was accused but he did not actually rape her as per the jury's verdict.

YEs you are asking women to be braver than most men would be OMG.

Not only do they have to stand up and go through the humiliation of the police process adn the trial, they then have to watch the jury assess their pain, as less important than the fact that a man in a suit who raped them, might have to suffer adverse consequences becasue of it.

And now in addition we also have the threat of being prosecuted for making a false allegation if we can't get the jury to have more sympathy with us than with our rapists.

And juries nearly always have more sympathy with rapists than with their victims, because they simplsy see them as more human.

I am not rounding on you boffin, I'm discussing it with you, putting my views forward

LOL no-one's trying to tell you off BoF.

But I do think it's important to challenge people's views on rape, because they are very deep seated and that is why we have this appalling conviction rate

X-post

I have felt like I've been told off before, I now know that's not the case. It's just everyone on here is very passsionate and that can sometimes come across quite strongly

No, I feel evey time I open my gob on rape I am seen as antediluvian.

boffin - I don't think you are antediluvian and I think your desire to protect your daughters is entirely natural. What I would argue is that it's the sons who need to be educated, not the daughters.

But why is that a problem for you?

So what?

If you're right and we're wrong, what's the problem?

There isn't one really, but a bit of me wonders what the point is having a discussion. I normally avoid these threads. Don't know why I said anything on this one.

Well I think the point of having a discussion is that everyone learns a bit more.

And also, they have their deeply held perceptions challenged and that may be uncomfortable if their deeply held perceptions aren't based in reality.

I'm not saying that as a dig, that's a general point - mostly on rape threads, people literally have no idea that most rapes go unreported, that most allegations are true, that most rapists walk free, etc. etc. When they find out that all their very deeply held assumptions about rape, whcih they hadn't realised they had, are based on rape myths, they are shocked and uncomfortable, understandably. But that's not a Bad Thing is it?

You don't have to avoid these threads either.

If you come on with an honestly held view and you're prepared to engage with an open mind, no-one is going to slate you.

We will invite you to change your mind though.