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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This board is the most frightening .

582 replies

fangbanger · 25/02/2011 23:25

Apparently.

I am a little saddened that a forum mostly used by women, has decided that the feminist boards are the most frightening of the forum.

Why do we feel that is? What can be done to prevent people from feeling so intimidated that they are too scared t post?

OP posts:
aviatrix · 27/02/2011 10:07

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JessinAvalon · 27/02/2011 10:13

Yes as long as the carnivore is prepared to listen and isn't focused on telling the veggies they aren't been inclusive enough!

LessNarkyPuffin · 27/02/2011 10:13

This thread has become very odd.

For a lot of people being feminist = wanting equal pay, equal treatment , so to them, saying you're not a feminist would suggest that you don't belive in that. Maybe it would help to define what feminist means to you Custardo.

EngelbertFustianMcSlinkydog · 27/02/2011 10:14

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aviatrix · 27/02/2011 10:37

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SalandersBro · 27/02/2011 10:56

"SalandersBro Sun 27-Feb-11 01:28:05
?So the feminist bit has become insular. Exclusive. Irrelavant. Prersonilised. Devisive. Boring . Where the vocab drives people away. something should change?

Oh the irony! There's a reason why you're reading the feminist topic and we're not reading the fishnet topic.
I hereby request that you make the fishnet topic more interesting for me. May I suggest you make it more feminist to draw in members. Thank you."

sakura - I couldn't give a flying fuck about whether you find the fishnet section interseting at all.

My comment about feminsit section was about how it looks to other people around here from reading stuff last night. not my personal opinion and it does look like all of those thnigs I say. to react so defensivly and tell me to make fishnet more interesting is far more loaded with the irony of the situation than you can apear to comprehend.
thank goodness the world of feminism is much bigger than this section of an internet forum.

Prolesworth · 27/02/2011 11:00

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SalandersBro · 27/02/2011 11:07

no contradiction prolesworth - it is possible to see someone elses's perspective and aslo hold your own. but that seems tricky round here. so i'll leave you to it.

Prolesworth · 27/02/2011 11:18

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dittany · 27/02/2011 11:30

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Unrulysun · 27/02/2011 11:35

When people are saying they'd rather see a debate what are they understanding by that? I say something, someone doesn't agree, they explain their pov and then I have three choices don't I? I can either change my mind and agree with them, I can stick to my guns with further reasoned argument or I can throw my toys out of the pram, say I came here for a debate thank-you very much not to be attacked and flounce off.

I've never met with anything other than reasoned challenge on here. I don't get what people are objecting to and what they want tbh.

Anyway, I'm off to the pram huns to expound on the wonders of slings. I expect to have them all converted by lunchtime. :)

aviatrix · 27/02/2011 12:12

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AgeingGrace · 27/02/2011 12:12

This must be the fourth or fifth similar thread I've attempted to participate in. Each time, it reduces to the same theme - "we" are marginalised, "we" represent the struggle against oppression, "you" don't understand. Listen up!

Well, fair enough but how much are you doing to help people like me understand where you're coming from? I don't consider women marginalised: it's a statistical impossibility. I consider women oppressed by the world we live in and am interested in exploring ways to overcome that. There are many possible approaches to the task: one is to complain, shout, fight, be angry. Another is to explain, persuade, appeal. One can pick certain battles to fight; other issues to explain. In this forum I get the impression that angry fighting is the only acceptable route. I do know that not all the regulars are so, but it's the reason I keep giving up. Perhaps I'm really not welcome, in which case you should just say so.

Dittany, this highlights what I'm trying to say:
I was asking why feminists should accept other points of view that aren't feminist

My problem is that you decide what's feminist and what isn't. Here's an example:

I say I think it's okay - and SHOULD be okay - for young women to experiment with expressing their sexuality through fashion, walking around in high-heeled boots and bikinis if they want to. You say I'm wrong. You say women "shouldn't" dress 'like porn stars'. You say it's an invitation to rape Confused

My problem with the above:
1] To suggest certain clothing is an invitation to rape is to label all men rapists (I'll come back to this).
2] To proscribe certain styles of clothing for women is as repressive as the male policies you reject.
3] In associating certain styles of clothing with the sexual exploitation of women, you fall prey to the labelling & categorisation of women by their appearance. In my book, that is violently anti-feminist. And shallow.

At 3am one hot night in Rio de Janeiro, I was waiting for a night bus after the carnival parade. I was wearing a swimsuit, tights and high heels (I'd taken my heavy 'wings' off). Standing next to me at the bus stop was a stunningly beautiful girl of about 16. She was wearing two lengths of glitter-encrusted wire, moulded into a bikini shape. Basically she was naked. We'd both walked about 3 miles through streets teeming with drunk & drugged revellers and fairly heavy traffic. We were standing at the kerb of a main road. She was utterly serene. There was no greater risk to her her safety than if she'd been wearing a boiler suit.

This is part of what I want. I want women to feel confident in their bodies, their sexuality and in men. To me, this is a big part of freedom for women. My story proves that all men are not rapists; it also proves that clothing is not an invitation to rape.

I abandoned this line of argument on another thread because I was subjected to a few sarky sideswipes and, more obviously, repeated insistence that "The problem is rapists!" Some of you are terribly guilty of "reductio ad absurdam^. Because you cannot see this, you will never be able to engage in dialogue with anybody who doesn't share your exact views.

Prolesworth · 27/02/2011 12:15

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dittany · 27/02/2011 12:16

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dittany · 27/02/2011 12:17

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dittany · 27/02/2011 12:20

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AgeingGrace · 27/02/2011 12:22

You seem to have the idea that I've got some kind of vendetta against you, Dittany. You're wrong.

I hear your wish that I steer clear of this section. I'll post if I want to, but I won't bother trying to put across any views you may dislike - I know I'd be wasting my time.

Tortington · 27/02/2011 12:23

ot is my opinion that you are not welcoming of all other opinion. i do not belong to the catagories you listed. i speak from experience. furthermore, the thread which spawned this thread has posters who also speak from experience. Are you simply sayng that i and the other posters are lying or mistaken, feminists and not - who differ in opinion to some on the feminist board who have experienced unpleasentness, very very much like the passive aggressiveness you and i are entertaining at the moment dittany.

I am not the only person to have experienced it and i am not telling untruths, many people on the other thread also said so, some people on this thread have also said so.

so it breaks down like this

what do i as a non feminist want from the feminist board?
nothing that i wouldn't accept from the rest of the board, the chance to debate civilly and state my opinion

why as a non femenist would i want to do this
becuase i am still interested in womens issues, much like i would post in the politics section without being a paid up member of a party.

AgeingGrace · 27/02/2011 12:24

The thread I abandoned was the one I started, I think it was titled Acquiescence. The overall topic is still of great interest to me but I felt I couldn't pursue my line of discussion there as other posters reduced it to "victim blaming".

notjustapotforsoup · 27/02/2011 12:25

Grace, I'm puzzled by your example given above. I know dittany gets accused of all sorts of things, but inconsistency isn't one of them. She is unequivocal about where the responsibility lies when it comes to rape (and I thank her for being so.) Which thread was it on?

notjustapotforsoup · 27/02/2011 12:25

sorry. x post.

Prolesworth · 27/02/2011 12:25

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Goblinchild · 27/02/2011 12:27

I have heard the 'invitation to rape' argument given before, but in all honesty and after much lurking, I have never read it on this board from any regular.
The idea that it might come from Dittany made me gasp in disbelief. Unless you have a post to back it up AG, I'll go with thinking you have confused Dittany with another poster, and not a feminist regular.

dittany · 27/02/2011 12:27

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