New(ish) to feminism and want to pack it in already

[AnnieLobeseder]

So while I've always been very much in favour of equal rights, am well educated, work full time, share all childcare and domestic drudgery with DH etc etc, it's only in the last few months, thanks to MN, that I've become more serious about feminism.

I just always had the view that Western women had it pretty good compared to a lot of people out there, laws always seemed to be changing for the better and there wasn't much need to worry about it.

Some feminist thread here convinced me that there is a need for more serious feminist action; even though things are better than ever for women and continue to get better still, there is a long way to go.

BUT - a not insubstantial part of me wishes I'd never had that awakening! Stuff on TV and around me that has never bothered me before is now annoying the hell out of me, which is an unwelcome new source of stress.

And then threads like this one last week, about how women should go back to the kitchen, and this one today, about how we should all be grateful Mrs Wife.

So I have to wonder, how will the cause of women ever progress when even women are so dead set against feminism? Women seem to like being oppressed, and dislike and ridicule feminists for trying to make life better for them.

How do the rest of you cope with these things?!

Where are you based, Annie? There's a lot going on in Bristol. We need all the energy we can get! I am about to coordinate some work on SEV licences for the 5 or 6 lap dancing clubs in Bristol, for example.

I wonder if we can hook you up with some other feminists nearby? I have feminist friends around the country who are desperate for support with some of the things they are doing.

I have to say that I am surprised at the rudeness you've encountered on here. But, as Rhadegunde said, that was a full house in feminist bingo, and only in a few posts!

Jess - I'm in Surrey. We're too posh for nasty old feminism here, you know!

OK. Someone explain how I am making myself unequal to men by choosing to give myself the same name as those I love most, as opposed to my father's family which consists mostly of people for whom I have no real affection.

I consider myself to be entirely equal to any man. I am at least as well-educated and capable as any man I know. I once walked out of a job interview (for a job I really wanted) because one of the panel insisted on asking me if I was single and if I had plans for a family, and wouldn't let it go. I couldn't work for someone who would even ask that.

I have read The Female Eunuch, The Whole Woman, The Second Sex, The Beauty Myth, Beauty and Misogyny etc. etc. so I vaguely know something about feminism. I resent being patronised because of a choice I have made by someone who either can't be arsed or doesn't know how to respond.

I don't take shit from men, and I don't take it from women either which is why I was rude.

Totally agree, Edam. How many times have I heard that argument from people who are doing absolutely nothing in their own lives outside their own sphere!

And thanks, StayFrosty. I guess my energy comes from the anger I feel. Knowing that I'm doing (or trying to do) something constructive with it helps me to manage it.

MrsJoyfulPrize - no-one has specifically mentioned name changing or using Mrs as opposed to Ms. You seem to have an issue about this.

My reading of this is that you seem conflicted. You are widely read on feminist issues yet feel the need to raise the issue of your name change twice on a thread which is about Annie's feelings about feminism and to defend it to us.

If you are feeling conflicted about it, why attack Annie?

Another sigh. If you had read the Mrs Wife thread properly, MrsJoy, you would know it's about the title women use, not the surname they take.

FWIW, I agree with you about surnames.

But er, nobody had given you any shit when you were rude Mrsjoyful.

And this thread isn't the place to discuss it is it? Isn't there a thread on this very issue being discussed, I'm sure I've seen one in active convos.

And please explain how and where I gave you this shit that you seem to feel justified in returning to me?

I wish MN had 'like' buttons for posts. I would have hit it for yours then, StayFrosty!

Do we need to put a call out for Surrey based feminists? I can ask on the Object forum as well.

You mentioned it as something that got to you. I was trying to find out exactly why it got to you, because I reckon it's one thing that can easily be crossed off the very long list of why being a feminist can sometimes be quite depressing.

But instead of responding with reasons why it was a problem, you just went 'Sigh...' and 'D'ya see? WTF!?' as though I was suggesting that rimming pigeons was a good idea.

If you react like that to anyone who doesn't 100% agree with everything you say, you will be missing out on something decent with people who agree with 95% of what you say.

MrsJoy, as I said before, if you had read the thread I referred to, you would have read my views on the subject, and I was sighing at being asked to repeat them. I have been making the argument on and off all day and really dodn't wish to continue making it on this thread too.

Why are you trying to change the subject here anyway? I started this thread to ask feminists about being a feminist because I'm feeling a little beaten down. I did not start it to ask anti-feminists to hurl abuse at me - I'm not one of those fetish types who likes to be whipped them they're down.

I just feel you picked a very poor platform to make your argument, hence the sigh. I don't wish to engage with you on this thread and will not do so any further. Not here, not now. Another day, another thread, no problem. I'll see you there.

Yup, I'm anti-myself. That makes sense.

Hi Annie
Have you looked at Uk Feminista? They might have feminist groups listed in your area. There are over 60 in the UK listed apparently.

All I can say is, keep fighting. And most of us here know exactly how you feel. I consider myself to have been enlightened. Once you see the oppression, it becomes very obvious to you. We are all brought up with the sane cultural norms and some people just don't see it-or refuse to (my mum, for instance).

I started the "Mrs HappyWife" thread referred to in the OP. I would like to identify myself as a feminist but I find it really hard as I feel my choices are denigrated at every turn. I thought originally that feminism was about giving women freedom but the impression I get (and I am open to having my mind changed) is that it's about telling women that they should live a certain way, that everything has to be staunchly anti-patriarchy or else it's risible and open to judgement. My entire thread was dismissed by the OP out of hand because it refers something linked with the patriarchy - surely that's overly reactionary and will only serve to alienate women like me rather than encourage them to see the feminist viewpoint? Also, I find the attitude that women who don't entirely agree with feminist dogma (ie women who enjoy being called Mrs etc) are "idiots" who are too stupid to see the light. How is judging and mocking other women a positive feminist stance? When white settlers first went to Africa they were angered and baffled by the fact that the natives wouldn't accept the obvious truth that white civilisation was the right way to go and they just bulldozed all the existing beliefs and tried to discredit them. Clearly that attitude didn't work, but in an analagous way feminism seems to be trying to do the same thing - rather than addressing existing beliefs in an open accepting fashion, I more often see feminists dismissing and even mocking the beliefs of fellow women as somehow less enlightened and less progressive. IMO that approach just creates and cements the divisions that exist among women and does nothing to advance feminism's cause.

If you have a problem with my thread OP, articulate it, don't just mock it and dismiss it out of hand. In that way I can engage in debate with you and you have the opportunity to change my mind and that will be a positive step for feminism.

AnnieL, to recharge your feminist batteries have you tried some 'safe' feminist online communities, such as at the F-Word? Message-board debating can be disheartening, I agree.

WriterofDreams, feminism doesn't mean denigrating choices, but not all feminists agree with each other - it's not a movement where everyone thinks the same .

Try Shakesville's blog post shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2010/11/pro-choice.html.

I too feel the same, every bloody new track on the radio, every slight against women I am so sensitive that I barely get through the day without something annoying me.

I'm trying to get my DH to agree to change our children's surnames, as we speak, but they have to be double barrelled and they would get my dH's name and my Dad's so I'm not sure it's worth it.

I'm late to the party here but I wanted to add something.

I became a feminist in my teens because I identified with it as being something fun and joyful and I still do. You get to wear what you like, do what you like, be in charge of your own body and stick two fingers up to dusty old prudes. I grew up with the emergence of female stand up comedians like Rita Rudner, Jo Brand, French & Saunders and devoured Cosmopolitan when it was still a reasonably forward thinking magazine. Say what you like about Madonna but at the time she made being a strong, muscular, powerful woman, sexy and exciting. The humorous feminist writer Cynthia Heimel is also a big heroine of mine though sadly out of print now I think.

I don't think enough is made of this side of feminism. Being joyful about something makes you active and proactive, it makes it a party rather than a chore.

Annie - you can either get angry and take action in a macro way or if you feel that it will be too much you can do it in a micro way - ie the personal is political - by the way you act with your dc and at the school gate and at work you can really influence people - it doesnt have to be a cop out you can really make a difference.

But yes I feel exactly the same - its because its so entrenched and so insiduous and by sopeaking out you get branded as a humourless harpy but still..

oh and I'm in Surrey

speaking