New(ish) to feminism and want to pack it in already

[AnnieLobeseder]

So while I've always been very much in favour of equal rights, am well educated, work full time, share all childcare and domestic drudgery with DH etc etc, it's only in the last few months, thanks to MN, that I've become more serious about feminism.

I just always had the view that Western women had it pretty good compared to a lot of people out there, laws always seemed to be changing for the better and there wasn't much need to worry about it.

Some feminist thread here convinced me that there is a need for more serious feminist action; even though things are better than ever for women and continue to get better still, there is a long way to go.

BUT - a not insubstantial part of me wishes I'd never had that awakening! Stuff on TV and around me that has never bothered me before is now annoying the hell out of me, which is an unwelcome new source of stress.

And then threads like this one last week, about how women should go back to the kitchen, and this one today, about how we should all be grateful Mrs Wife.

So I have to wonder, how will the cause of women ever progress when even women are so dead set against feminism? Women seem to like being oppressed, and dislike and ridicule feminists for trying to make life better for them.

How do the rest of you cope with these things?!

Mr is the equivalent of Ms

What men don't have is the equivalent of Mrs and Miss because once they hit 18 they're regarded as adults in their own right and the relationship status of a particular individual male is irrelevant to society, as it should be for all human beings

that's a joke right, Surreydad?

At least women can choose to define themselves by their relationship status. Us men have to call ourselves Mr regardless of whether we're married or not, and we dont have an equivelant to Ms.

Thanks folks, those are all good ideas, and thanks for all the links. I'll have a look at them.

I think if I'm going to have a pet cause it would be women in science and technology, since that's my field, and often a little woman-unfriendly (not over in my side of things but maths and engineering are very male dominated).

I'm in north west Surrey, way out beyond the M25 so London-based stuff is a big schlep for me.

Annie where in Surrey are you? I'm SW London and feeling a bit the same. I think I'm going to join the Fawcett Society - they have some interesting talks coming up. They meet in Farringdon though which is a pain.

For feminist Bingo don't we have to have how stripping is empowering women? :)

Going back to the OP's questions, I cope as a feminist by not being totally bothered whether other women are feminists, as long as I feel free to live in a feminist way and bring up my daughters in a relatively non-sexist environment, and to challenge sexism where it affects me.

I know that's not enough in wider terms and there's lots of progress to be made, but the fact that I find it personally liberating to live as a feminist is enough to keep me keen.

It helps that I work with a lot of powerful feminist women in an environment where sexism is routinely challenged.

Annie, you sound a bit isolated - have you thought about joining one of the national feminist organsations like Fawcett or Object?

Signing up to a specific campaign might help you to focus your anger & give you a realistic target to aim at, together with other like-minded people.

They also give you a free t shirt!

WoD - I think you're right to feel that some posters were somewhat attacking of women who use Mrs. I don't think I was - I expressed my opinion that it doesn't help the feminist cause, but made no personal comment about women who do. Others posters said some unpleasant things, like about them all loving fluffy toys (WTF?), but it wasn't me.

WoD may I refer you to this post I posted on your thread yesterday. How is it not clear?

Hullygully Tue 01-Feb-11 16:04:59
Ok. Let us be clear:

Feminism is about Equal Rights for Women. For women to be treated and regarded on equal terms as men.

The term "Mrs" denotes possession. You may wish to deny this, but it is the fact and the truth and the historical derivation and provenance.

Ergo "Mrs" or "Miss" are not terms compatible with equality.

Ergo those of us who do not wish to subscribe to the practice associated with being a second class citizen, use "Ms."

speaking

Annie - you can either get angry and take action in a macro way or if you feel that it will be too much you can do it in a micro way - ie the personal is political - by the way you act with your dc and at the school gate and at work you can really influence people - it doesnt have to be a cop out you can really make a difference.

But yes I feel exactly the same - its because its so entrenched and so insiduous and by sopeaking out you get branded as a humourless harpy but still..

oh and I'm in Surrey

I'm late to the party here but I wanted to add something.

I became a feminist in my teens because I identified with it as being something fun and joyful and I still do. You get to wear what you like, do what you like, be in charge of your own body and stick two fingers up to dusty old prudes. I grew up with the emergence of female stand up comedians like Rita Rudner, Jo Brand, French & Saunders and devoured Cosmopolitan when it was still a reasonably forward thinking magazine. Say what you like about Madonna but at the time she made being a strong, muscular, powerful woman, sexy and exciting. The humorous feminist writer Cynthia Heimel is also a big heroine of mine though sadly out of print now I think.

I don't think enough is made of this side of feminism. Being joyful about something makes you active and proactive, it makes it a party rather than a chore.

I'm trying to get my DH to agree to change our children's surnames, as we speak, but they have to be double barrelled and they would get my dH's name and my Dad's so I'm not sure it's worth it.

I too feel the same, every bloody new track on the radio, every slight against women I am so sensitive that I barely get through the day without something annoying me.

WriterofDreams, feminism doesn't mean denigrating choices, but not all feminists agree with each other - it's not a movement where everyone thinks the same .

Try Shakesville's blog post shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2010/11/pro-choice.html.

AnnieL, to recharge your feminist batteries have you tried some 'safe' feminist online communities, such as at the F-Word? Message-board debating can be disheartening, I agree.

I started the "Mrs HappyWife" thread referred to in the OP. I would like to identify myself as a feminist but I find it really hard as I feel my choices are denigrated at every turn. I thought originally that feminism was about giving women freedom but the impression I get (and I am open to having my mind changed) is that it's about telling women that they should live a certain way, that everything has to be staunchly anti-patriarchy or else it's risible and open to judgement. My entire thread was dismissed by the OP out of hand because it refers something linked with the patriarchy - surely that's overly reactionary and will only serve to alienate women like me rather than encourage them to see the feminist viewpoint? Also, I find the attitude that women who don't entirely agree with feminist dogma (ie women who enjoy being called Mrs etc) are "idiots" who are too stupid to see the light. How is judging and mocking other women a positive feminist stance? When white settlers first went to Africa they were angered and baffled by the fact that the natives wouldn't accept the obvious truth that white civilisation was the right way to go and they just bulldozed all the existing beliefs and tried to discredit them. Clearly that attitude didn't work, but in an analagous way feminism seems to be trying to do the same thing - rather than addressing existing beliefs in an open accepting fashion, I more often see feminists dismissing and even mocking the beliefs of fellow women as somehow less enlightened and less progressive. IMO that approach just creates and cements the divisions that exist among women and does nothing to advance feminism's cause.

If you have a problem with my thread OP, articulate it, don't just mock it and dismiss it out of hand. In that way I can engage in debate with you and you have the opportunity to change my mind and that will be a positive step for feminism.

Hi Annie
Have you looked at Uk Feminista? They might have feminist groups listed in your area. There are over 60 in the UK listed apparently.

All I can say is, keep fighting. And most of us here know exactly how you feel. I consider myself to have been enlightened. Once you see the oppression, it becomes very obvious to you. We are all brought up with the sane cultural norms and some people just don't see it-or refuse to (my mum, for instance).

Yup, I'm anti-myself. That makes sense.

MrsJoy, as I said before, if you had read the thread I referred to, you would have read my views on the subject, and I was sighing at being asked to repeat them. I have been making the argument on and off all day and really dodn't wish to continue making it on this thread too.

Why are you trying to change the subject here anyway? I started this thread to ask feminists about being a feminist because I'm feeling a little beaten down. I did not start it to ask anti-feminists to hurl abuse at me - I'm not one of those fetish types who likes to be whipped them they're down.

I just feel you picked a very poor platform to make your argument, hence the sigh. I don't wish to engage with you on this thread and will not do so any further. Not here, not now. Another day, another thread, no problem. I'll see you there.

You mentioned it as something that got to you. I was trying to find out exactly why it got to you, because I reckon it's one thing that can easily be crossed off the very long list of why being a feminist can sometimes be quite depressing.

But instead of responding with reasons why it was a problem, you just went 'Sigh...' and 'D'ya see? WTF!?' as though I was suggesting that rimming pigeons was a good idea.

If you react like that to anyone who doesn't 100% agree with everything you say, you will be missing out on something decent with people who agree with 95% of what you say.

I wish MN had 'like' buttons for posts. I would have hit it for yours then, StayFrosty!

Do we need to put a call out for Surrey based feminists? I can ask on the Object forum as well.