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Original poster

Sky football pundits sexism furore

26 replies

Coleysworth · 25/01/2011 10:16

Serves me right for reading the Daily Mail but FFS, check out Julie Welch's column about this story

Here's the gist.

Andy Gray and Richard Keys were wrong and their comments were "mean-spirited, misogynist and just plain outdated".

But wait! Men making sexist remarks is nothing new and anyway denigrating women is nothing like denigrating black people.

Football is sexist but then so is everything because sexism is natural, innit?

Women are equal now so it's not surprising that men resent their loss of privilege.

Women should be able to work in male-dominated fields like football but only if they're prepared to put up with shitty sexist attitudes from resentful blokes like I had to.

Anyway, poor menz, they've lost all their traditional men only spaces where they can be sexist without having to worry about the 'thought police'. Because proper men (not "arty leftie metrosexuals") are naturally sexist and it's hard for them to not have anywhere to express their natural sexism these days.

"Women may grumble about glass ceilings and pay inequality, but men don't have such a great time of things either."

So have a heart and let blokes be blokes eh?

OP posts:
HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 25/01/2011 10:25

The Wright show had this on yesterday and a woman was on saying basically the same thing - that sexism isn't as bad as racism. Racism goes back much further and was entrenched (paraphrasing) was one of the classic comments. I did find it difficult listening to Matthew Wright bleat on about how sexist remarks were wrong when he comes out with just as bad on every bloody show.

And don't get me started on the offside rule comment. There is nothing complicated about it. If there was then half the footballers on the pitch wouldn't be able to understand it. Try understanding the offside rules (and there are about 25 of them) in rugby union!

Original poster
Coleysworth · 25/01/2011 11:08

I don't understand the reasoning behind this "sexism is not as bad as racism" thing. I think it's that people who make that sort of claim believe that sexism is a natural phenomenon, but don't they realise that people used to excuse racism on the same grounds? Bloody idiots Angry

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AliceWorld · 25/01/2011 12:18

Yes and there was the whole era of biological determinism in racism era too (which still haunts now of course).

Re the offside rule, I hate football, very little interest in sport, but was curious. So my ex-ref dad explained it to me, and I thought Hmm that's it?! Hmm What the hell is even meant to be complicated about that??

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 25/01/2011 12:36

It's not that complicated Alice. Like scallops, I have been pointing out that if footballers can understand it, it can't be nuclear physics can it.

Original poster
Coleysworth · 25/01/2011 12:51

Agree, the offside rule is perfectly straightforward. I've never been able to get my head around the rules of rugby though, but I think that might be down to utter lack of interest rather than having a pea-sized brain.

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Truckulente · 25/01/2011 13:22

The offside law is subjective and open to interpretation that is why it is confusing.

I don't think footballers, fans, commentators, managers do understand it.

It is the whether a player is active that causes confusion. Or whether he is gaining an advantage by being in an offside position.

How's that for Mansplaining?

Best ref we've had this season was female.

TheCrackFox · 25/01/2011 13:27

I have just read that Andy Grey earns £1.7m a year. Shock For talking a load of pish.

Original poster
Coleysworth · 25/01/2011 13:31

Fair dos, Truck. The principle seems pretty simple though, even if the application of the principle is sometimes tricky. Tbh I don't take enough of an interest in football to know one way or the other Grin

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vesuvia · 25/01/2011 14:30

I look forward to many other correct decisions being made by Sian Massey, the woman in question. If she is subjected to this sexism when she makes a correct decision, I hate to think what is going to happen when she makes a mistake (because, like her male colleagues, she is human).

I notice she is described as a "linesman". I thought Premiership football officials were now called "assistant referees", or is that title only for the men?

Anniegetyourgun · 25/01/2011 15:19

Sillies, the reason women can't understand the offside rule is because they look at the written rules. The unwritten rule is that if it allows a goal against your team it was offside, whereas if it allows one to your team it wasn't. That's what is meant by a matter of judgement. Women's brains (yes, all of them, everywhere) work on a literal basis so they completely miss the main point.

Actually I think I've confused myself there, but then I am a you-know-what so it's not surprising.

anastaisia · 25/01/2011 16:31

Andy Gray has been sacked apparently.

HerBeX · 25/01/2011 16:49

ROFL at "if footballers can understand it, it can't be nuclear physics can it."

Oh oh oh I am so tempted to explain the off side rule to Truckulent in patronising detail... Grin

anastaisia · 25/01/2011 17:01

Sky say that he was sacked after came to light after he had already been suspended for the Massey comments.

thefinerthingsinlife · 25/01/2011 17:06

this is what a 'friend' has just posted on fb

"So Andy Gray and Richard Keys were repremanded, disciplined and then suspended. But that still wasn't enough for the anti sexism brigade who have now hounded Gray out of his job! Madness"

I hate the amount of shit we are suppose to take just because of the sex we are born!

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 25/01/2011 18:13

Yes - those RadFems who run the Sky TV recruitment and HR dept. Shame on them!

Truckulente · 25/01/2011 18:29

I know the offside law. But HerB go on then I'm ready for some ref-radfemsplaining.

But here's one for you. When I played rugby we called the referee 'Sir' as a mark of respect, that was the norm in rugby.

When we had a female ref we still called her 'Sir', what should we have called her? Now I'm more knowledgeable on feminism it has struck me as slightly odd.

bibbitybobbityhat · 25/01/2011 18:32

Dh (in the biz) says they were not popular, not liked by their colleagues, and the leak "got out" in a way that was helpful to senior management.

Don't expect this post will last much longer, but that's the industry gossip for you.

TheCrackFox · 25/01/2011 18:38

That makes sense bibbitybobbityhat - if you piss enough of your colleagues off then eventually it will bite you on the arse. I am glad the sexist tosser was sacked.

claig · 25/01/2011 18:43

The Daily Mail article today mentions

"Gray is currently involved in a high-profile case against the News Of The World involving allegations of hacking into his voicemail. The newspaper is owned by News International whose parent company holds a 39 per cent share in Sky and is involved in a controversial bid to buy-out all the shares of the TV company."

I think there is possibly more behind this than the comments.

TheCrackFox · 25/01/2011 18:47

TBH if I was paid £1.7 million I wouldn't sue my employers. Not that I agree with hacking into private messages but he knew what they were like when he signed his lucrative contract.

HerBeX · 25/01/2011 18:47

LOL at ref-radfemsplaining. That is odd about the female ref being called Sir. In the police, it's Ma'am, isn't it, I suppose that would be the obvious moniker.

LilBB · 25/01/2011 19:52

This whole thing has made me mad. Defense of this is she should accept if she wants to work with men, watch loose women if you want to see sexism and they made the comments in private. What a load of BS. Women shouldn't have to take derogatory comments to work with men, loose women is shit and they didn't make the comments in private. They made them whilst at work and wearing mics. I'm now off to comment on lots of fb post by men.

TrillianAstra · 25/01/2011 19:59

Robert Crampton was v good about this in The Times (I like him).

"Why is it that when you look at the online comments on this issue, expecting to find the usual angry, embittered, reactionary, depressing internet drivel in support of whatever passing bigotry has been aired, you find instead that the vast majority of postings castigate the suspended Sky Sports pair? There are, I think, three reasons. "

Not sure how much I am allowed to c7p but I will summarise:

1 - She's not some girl who's not very interested in football, she's a professional referee and knows the rules better than nearly everyone, male or female. "To say that she doesn?t know her job offends against the idea that study and experience are worth anything."

2 - She made a very difficult decision and go it right (although they would have been wrong to say what they said even if she had made a bad call)

3 - They weren't even funny. It didn't even sound as if they were trying to be funny.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 25/01/2011 20:02

Just listened to 5 news and apparently Andy Gray made an inappropriate comment to a female colleague last month. I am utterley gobsmacked by this revelation Wink.

TrillianAstra · 25/01/2011 20:05

Oh yes, and the offside rule is simple enough to understand but very difficult to implement, especially since football still (AFAIK) doesn't use replays or any electronic equipment when making calls.

"Some studies have suggested that tracking the relative positions and movement of a minimum of three people plus the flight of a ball simultaneously is so hard as to be almost impossible for the human eye in real time."