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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I am so shocked about that thread stating most women have no pubic hair

452 replies

roseability · 05/01/2011 22:33

I don't know quite why it has disturbed me so much. Like most women I have plucked/shaved and groomed for many years of my life. However the thought of putting myself through that really upsets me for some reason. Not that I plan to. It is just that I have never, ever considered that pubic hair is undesirable. I can't help but relate it to women in porn with little or no pubic hair and it makes me sad to think girls and young women (I have a daughter) will no doubt feel insecure about their vagina and how it looks in this way.

I am by no means a good feminist. As I mentioned I do shave my legs and I wear make up. I have read Beauty and Misogyny by Sheila Jeffreys and I question why I even do this. However it makes me almost weep to think of my daughter being influenced in such a way.

I was just really upset by that thread and I m not sure why

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 05/01/2011 23:39

Then I guess you're weak, dittany. I was 20 20 years ago, had never seen porn and had already been removing hair for a decade.

My body, my choice.

Spidermama · 05/01/2011 23:40

Expat it's not nearly so routine with men. I know some do but probably only as many men do it now as, say, women did in the 70s.

With young women it is now unusual NOT to do it. Very different level of pressure.

JessinAvalon · 05/01/2011 23:40

My mum was flicking through that bastion of misogyny - The Times - a couple of days ago and they had a section on all the different types of treatments that women could mutilate enhance themselves with now.

My mum said, 'isn't it amazing, all of these things that they can do now?'

I thought...er..no...The more treatments that are available, the more pressure there is to have them. It becomes your duty to improve yourself because there are treatments out there now that are accessible to many women.

dittany · 05/01/2011 23:42

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Prolesworth · 05/01/2011 23:43

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melezka · 05/01/2011 23:45

LRD, I do think it is a question of degree. I had a student write a rather compelling study linking the two. Of course one was imposed on children who had no choice in the matter and we can all argue on this thread about the amount of choice allowed by our current society - but I think there is a parallel there.

JessinAvalon · 05/01/2011 23:47

Expat - I have 2 piercings. Both were very quick and didn't involve repeated and regular bouts of discomfort and pain. I don't know any men who do any kind of body hair removal (I am not including facial hair in this).

As I said, I'm sure that some women do choose to remove their pubic hair. That's fine. However, I agree with Dittany on this. If I was 20 now, instead of 34, I'm sure that I would be removing my pubic hair as a matter of course. And quite honestly, I'd really prefer not to. I tried it for a while at the request of an ex and I didn't like it.

I do think that it's quite worrying as a trend and I agree that it's an unnecessary expectation to place on young women now. Fine if someone chooses to do something but if it becomes the norm, then people, i.e. women are expected to conform.

I know someone whose 15 year old daughter already had a boyfriend express disgust at her pubic region when he put his hand in her knickers. She's now very upset and is likely to conform to the trend. I'm sure her parents will be reassuring her that it's her choice but I imagine that it's a difficult position to maintain when your peer group are all conforming.

expatinscotland · 05/01/2011 23:49

Yes, I did, dittany. I had an early puberty. I come from a hot, sweaty climate. I have fair skin and lots of very dark body hair. I didn't like it and never have. I've said that over and over again. So I borrowed my dad's razor and an older sister and cousins taught me the way.

I'm Latina.

I also had my ears pierced as a baby, wore gold jewellry as a child and had my eyebrows plucked age 11.

I first had a Brazilian from . . . a Brazilian beauty therapist.

MissQue · 05/01/2011 23:49

I don't equate feminism with de-fuzzing any more than hating the whole male population. Feminism to me is being equal to males, expecting equal pay and opportunities, not being subjected to discrimination on the basis of gender.

I do think that the media have a lot to answer for with the trends for being over skinny/hairless/botoxed etc. and that it is unhealthy to bring our children up believing that they must do all this stuff to be attractive and worthwhile. I worry that there are people out there who end up very unhealthy, physically and mentally because of the messages that are sent out to them via these expectations, especially teenagers who are vulnerable to outside influences.

But in the meantime, I carry on shaving my legs and pits, and electrolysing my bloody chin hairs till they bugger off and leave me alone!

JessinAvalon · 05/01/2011 23:50

Spidermama - that's vile! What happens when they take the rings off, I wonder. I have visions of their necks not being strong enough to support their heads. Ugh.

ILoveItWhenYouCallMeBoo · 05/01/2011 23:50

the thread didn't state that most women have no pubic hair.

expatinscotland · 05/01/2011 23:50

'Expat - I have 2 piercings. Both were very quick and didn't involve repeated and regular bouts of discomfort and pain.'

Well, it doesn't hurt me anymore. It hurt maybe the first time. But I've been doing it myself for donks.

My body my choice.

I don't criticise others for not depilating because it's none of my business.

RumourOfAHurricane · 05/01/2011 23:51

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expatinscotland · 05/01/2011 23:52

I don't find it painful, haven't had any ill effects from it and like it.

You don't.

So don't do it.

dittany · 05/01/2011 23:54

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wukter · 05/01/2011 23:54

No harm in analysing the whys though

expatinscotland · 05/01/2011 23:54

Now shineon, you're conforming to patriarchal pressure.

I hate high heels. Ouch. I have a bad bunion on my right foot from pointe shoes and too tight climbing slippers, a knee full of metal and another with next to no cartilage on the meniscus, so heels hurt.

But hey ho, they've been around for centuries.

So had depilating in one form or another.

My Pakistani friend waxes with sugar she cooks up herself.

JessinAvalon · 05/01/2011 23:55

Expat - good for you. I don't think you can equate a couple of quick piercings with repeated bouts of pain, however. It hurts me every time I get waxed but I still do it.

However, I draw the line at waxing everything. As I have said before, it's your choice. Fine. But I don't like the pressure on young women today to conform to a certain trend and especially one that has come from porn.

No one is telling you that you shouldn't be waxing everywhere if that's what you want to do. What we're concerned about is that trend that places an expectation on young girls to conform and results in men having expectations of women's appearance that is largely based on the porn industry.

JessinAvalon · 05/01/2011 23:58

Personally I think back to the 14 year old me and I was worrying about my schoolwork, first getting interested in boys and other things that I was doing at the time. Not whether or not I should have been waxing my pubic hair or not because boys in my class decided that the porn star look was a good one.

@Dittany - it is awful, isn't it. I'm not sure what the outcome of it was but it isn't a nice story, I know.

JaneS · 05/01/2011 23:59

expat - I'm not Latina but I also have pale skin and lots of dark hair. My mum doesn't remove her hair and didn't let me buy razors, so I was teased a lot about it at school. I hated and so understand something of how you feel.

People can be very cruel, especially if you're a child who developed early.

I still worry about the implications of this trend towards seeing hair as dirty, though. I don't see why anyone wouldn't worry about it, tba, even if you personally want to remove your hair. It's the fact it's become such a big trend, and increasingly characterized not in terms of personal choice but in terms of rectifying a dirty abnormality, that's worrying to me.

expatinscotland · 06/01/2011 00:00

Oh, yes, using the collective to justify your own opinion, Jessica. [rolls eyes]

So concerned? Then bring up your daughters and sons accordingly.

Not everyone waxes and not everyone removes everything.

In the grand scheme of pressures on the next generation, I can't get worked up about this.

melezka · 06/01/2011 00:00

Or - ok - just to be clear and over-egging it entirely - I think looking at the beauty practices of other cultures which we might find incomprehensible is an interesting lens - a distancing lens - through which to examine our own cultural beauty practices. You are right in questioning the comparison.

expatinscotland · 06/01/2011 00:01

You're assuming I was teased about it, LittleRed. I wasn't.

weedle · 06/01/2011 00:01

I popped into the other thread to ask about vajazzling...

Didn't get a response, anyone care to offer an opinion?