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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I am so shocked about that thread stating most women have no pubic hair

452 replies

roseability · 05/01/2011 22:33

I don't know quite why it has disturbed me so much. Like most women I have plucked/shaved and groomed for many years of my life. However the thought of putting myself through that really upsets me for some reason. Not that I plan to. It is just that I have never, ever considered that pubic hair is undesirable. I can't help but relate it to women in porn with little or no pubic hair and it makes me sad to think girls and young women (I have a daughter) will no doubt feel insecure about their vagina and how it looks in this way.

I am by no means a good feminist. As I mentioned I do shave my legs and I wear make up. I have read Beauty and Misogyny by Sheila Jeffreys and I question why I even do this. However it makes me almost weep to think of my daughter being influenced in such a way.

I was just really upset by that thread and I m not sure why

OP posts:
HerBeatitude · 05/01/2011 23:06

Shineon, your choices are not made in a vacuum.

ALL our choices are influenced by our culture. The porn culture has influenced fashion, we're all influenced by fashion, therefore we're all indirectly influenced by the porn culture. Similarly with Sleb culture - just because I don't read Heat or Hello, doesn't mean it doesn't influence me somewhere along the line.

I think it's valid to be upset by other people's choices when those choices are bad for women or for any other group. If ripping off pubic hair becomes so much the norm that any woman who doesn't do it is considered a freak, then you have to ask if it's a genuinely free choice.

I wax under my arms and my legs. I'm not going to pretend I do it for myself. I do it because I know that otherwise I will be considered ill-groomed. And I think it looks nice, but that's because my tastes have been formed by the culture in which i have been brought up. I wouldn't think it looked nice if I had been brought up in a culture that thought underarm hair was deeply sexy and earthy.

nikki1978 · 05/01/2011 23:06

I am one of the waxing brigade. I do not do it for men I have been removing hair since I was about 12 and waxing since 13. The fact that my bum was hairy was upsetting to me and made me feel unfeminine - I have pcos. When I finally found out about brazillian waxes I was so pleased I could have the hair removed easily without having to ask the embarrassing question! It is nothing sexual for me and nothing to do with porn! I do it when single for long periods too. I just hate the feeling of hair on my legs, undercarriage and bum. My hair is very thick and grows pretty long. It feels uncomfortable. I don't think I should feel bad about doing this anymore than someone who moisturises because they don't like the feeling of dry skin.

dittany · 05/01/2011 23:06

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wukter · 05/01/2011 23:11

i had a big long post typed out but poof! Just like that, it was gone.

It bemuses me because it seems to be another way to be judged and found wanting. Someone on the other thread made the point that it shows that a womans 'privates' are no longer private.

JessinAvalon · 05/01/2011 23:12

I was really saddened when I saw Channel 4's sex education show last year on teenagers and their knowledge about sex. It seems that most boys have seen porn at the age of 11 and many are watching porn on their mobile phones. As a consequence, girls were feeling pressured to remove all their pubic hair - girls of 14 who hadn't even had sex yet.

Women have enough pressure on them to pluck, wax, and polish other areas let alone now getting rid of all their pubic hair. Whilst I'm sure there are women who have chosen to do it, it does seem to be a trend that is becoming more popular because of porn and lap dancing clubs where the women are frequently shaved (I have been told by men who visit - information I didn't really want to know).

I also read an article last week about the trend in Playboy centrefolds for pubic hair. Someone had measured the trend for shaved centrefolds over the decades and, as it was once rare to see a shaved pubic region, now it's rare to see one with hair.

I find it really sad that young girls especially are feeling pressured to conform to this painful, time consuming trend. And I find it a bit disturbing that the trend is to see women who look like pre-pubescent girls.

I am very glad that I am not a teenager now. I think the pressure on young women now is much greater than it was when I was going through my teenage years.

JaneS · 05/01/2011 23:13

Dilys - I agree, I think it's partly a 'sex is dirty' attitude. One of the only RL people I know who thinks you should get rid of hair down there, also thinks men should be circumcised to keep them 'clean'.

HerBeatitude · 05/01/2011 23:17

Have you noticed that the adjective "dirty" is now standard terminology for anythign in sex that might be a bit adventurous or even jsut fun?

So we're back to a Pauline/ Augustinian view of sex. Very fucking liberated. Hmm

Spidermama · 05/01/2011 23:17

It's like scented tampax, pads for women to put in their pants between periods, blue liquid poured into sanitary towels in adverts, feminine 'hygiene' sprays and all of these other horrible ideas which serve to convince women they are intrinsically dirty and disgusting and need a high degree of maintaining to stifle their revolting natural selves.

Very depressing.

As a result of this thread I will be sure to let my children see me waltzing around the house with my locks on show as much as possible.

autodidact · 05/01/2011 23:23

I completely agree with you, roseability. It does seem so sad, somehow. Feel that it would be horrible if my daughter hated her pubes later on but maybe even more horrible if my sons (should they be heterosexual) found women's pubes a turn off. Hairy=unclean thing is not a nice thought either. Yet logically I agree that it's only an extension of plucking/shaving other body and facial hair, which I do. Think herbeatitude is right re the cultural influences at work.

Spidermama · 05/01/2011 23:23

I guess we needed something to replace the whale bone corsets and foot binding.

Isn't it horrifying that there was more room for individuality in the appearances of girls and women when I was young back in the 70s? These days there are far fewer examples of what is deemed by society to be alluring.

I can recommend the book Living Dolls: The Return of Sexism for anyone interested in this. It's depressing but if enough people read it perhaps it will be motivating.

melezka · 05/01/2011 23:26

Spidermama we have excessive dieting and ridiculously high heels. I think they're scarily similar.

JessinAvalon · 05/01/2011 23:28

I was discussing this issue with a friend on Facebook and this ad popped up!

My Smooth Legs - Natural hair removal for men

The worst part of this for me is that it will become the cultural norm. Photos in lads mags show women wearing the tiniest bikinis/knickers and pulling them down even lower, showing that they are hair free. It stops becoming a personal choice for women and an expectation that they feel the need to conform to instead.

I have given in to other trends but hope that I manage to resist this one. I really don't think that I could be bothered with all the hassle.

dittany · 05/01/2011 23:28

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singingcat · 05/01/2011 23:30

I do not give a flying fuck how many people wax everything off, I still think it looks ridiculous. Plucked chicken. I trim and tidy. I might have everything off once just to see how it feels, but I can't be arsed to go to the hairdresser more than twice a year so tbh I don't think it's going to be a runner.

Isn't it standard to remove all body hair in Islamic culture?

Spidermama · 05/01/2011 23:31

I totally agree. Ridiculously high heels mean women deliberately disabling themselves.

Now there are increasingly heavy false eye lashes too and hair extensions not to mention lips stuffed and swollen to make them thicker and all manner of slicing, nipping a tucking. It's self abuse. It's not the actions of someone who loves themselves and feels comfortable with themselves.

It seems to be desirable to look more doll than human. Women are making themselves unreal. More doll, more object than human.

Prolesworth · 05/01/2011 23:31

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singingcat · 05/01/2011 23:31

x post dittany, I agree

I shave my legs and underarms but don't wax. For a start, you actually have to GROW the hair before you can wax it. So you are having periods where you're really pretty hairy just so you can get it removed in a different way. Odd. I prefer a quick sweep twice a week with a razor - 10 mins

JessinAvalon · 05/01/2011 23:32

I wonder if it would take off if men were expected to rip their pubic hair out on a six-weekly basis and cope with the itchiness in the meantime.

I don't know why women put up with this shit, I really don't.

melezka · 05/01/2011 23:34

Since we are in the feminist section I'm sure at least some of us have read Marge Piercy's Woman on the Edge of Time. As the years go on I find it more and more frighteningly prescient.

Spidermama · 05/01/2011 23:35

If you'd told me back in the 70s and 80s that women would lurch backwards so far into self disgust that they were routinely doing these things to their own bodies, I would never have believed you.

expatinscotland · 05/01/2011 23:36

Who cares?

YABU.

I had two daughters. It's really none of my business what they do with their pubic hair when they are adults.

I was getting Brazilians over 25 years ago and even when single.

I think I've seen maybe 10 minutes of porn in my whole life. DH never uses it and neither do I.

Never found sex dirty, either. I love it and have enjoyed many partners.

Big deal. People have done things to make themselves more attractive to others for thousands of years. Big deal.

dittany · 05/01/2011 23:37

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JaneS · 05/01/2011 23:38

I find it really difficult to know what I should think, but I wear high heels and really love them.

I think it is a bit disrespectful to compare them to foot binding though - however much you dislike women wearing high heels, and especially those stupid enough to deform their feet, it's not the same as forcing a young girl to risk a nasty death from gangrene and to have her bones broken.

expatinscotland · 05/01/2011 23:38

'I wonder if it would take off if men were expected to rip their pubic hair out on a six-weekly basis and cope with the itchiness in the meantime.'

I know plenty who have and do. And still others with body piercings and tatts others would find painful or disgusting or revolting.

singingcat · 05/01/2011 23:39

I think I've done well in being brought up by my mother. She's not really a feminist or even that much of a big thinker, but she has a lot of self-confidence, very outdoorsy and practical, doesn't wear make-up because it makes her eyes itch and STILL has men falling in love with her. I still do things like wear make-up, shave my legs etc. but I weight cost against benefit. 5 mins in the morning applying make up, not a big deal. Walking round ALL DAY in uncomfortable shoes - fuhgeddaboutit. It's not even about attracting men. I have NEVER heard a man say 'oh, sexy shoes' ever ever ever. They don't even look. So what's the point?