Why do men not feel insulted by being view by companies as the lowest common denominator?

[JessinAvalon]

Ok...potentially controversial topic but here goes....

A friend of mine has just left the Cardiff Hooters after 15 minutes of waiting because no-one came to take her & her boyfriend's order (she's in there for research).

The terrible article in the Guardian that I posted yesterday said that the author and her companion were neglected by the Hooters girls who were paying more attention to the table of lads near them (I am assuming that this was the reason why my friend didn't get served).

Strip clubs, Nuts and Zoo magazine, The Sun, Hooters....

Surely many feel uncomfortable with having to live up the stereotype of 'tits...phwoar', 'strip club...phwoar', 'Hooters...phwoar'....

and their wallets take a huge battering in the meantime! Do they not realise that they are being exploited too?

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why men don't speak out more? Fear, general ignorance?

Obviously I am not lumping all men in as there are a few who reject the commodification of sex, thankfully.

Men don'rt suffer the regular sexual assualt that women do, so I guess see sexual assualt as a few isolated incidences. Pherhaps if men see sexual assualt as rare. they're less likely to link it to the common objectification of women within our society. Therefore they would be less likely to challenge it, as they don't see its effects.

Also, Peer pressure, and the belief that "it's just a pair of tits" e.g. recent sun thread on here.

Yes, I think peer pressure is a big factor. I've talked to a few male friends who have said that they don't actually strip clubs but it's not the done thing to object to going in one, e.g. on a stag night (although I did manage to make one guy derail some stag night arrangements last year by refusing to go into a strip club. The groom joined him in refusing but the best man had a strop and went in anyway!).

There are going to be plenty of men who don't think about it at all and who benefit from the 'it's just harmless fun' argument but there must be many who feel uncomfortable about it all and even insulted. I wish they would speak up more.

DH's standard argument is 'but I'm only male'. If I said 'can't do blah, blah, am only a female' I hope someone would shoot me. Some men are happy with being a stereotype as it's easy and secure.

It's peer pressure. Most people are followers and they do what everybody else does. You see the same thing with issues like global warming. The media spins a certain line and Gordon Brown calls non-believers "flat earthers" and most people who haven't got a clue just follow the lead of the people in the media. Very few people go against the crowd.

Lots of people like to be part of the crowd and not stand out. So they go with the flow. I love watching on the train how if one person gets up, loads do, even when that one person was wrong, and no-one is brave enough to sit back down. May seem a random analogy but I'm trying to say that people who don't follow the crowd are fewer. So they do what's 'normal' hence why normalisation is such as issue.

And about men not minding when they are represented as being bumbling idiots, incapable of doing simple tasks and ruled by their pants I would say they care less as they have less to lose. I'm white. If someone says something derogatory about white people I can shrug it off as it isn't going to have a huge impact on my life. I might feel slighted but having white privilege it really isn't going to make much difference to my life. Same if you are male. You have the power (as a group, not necessarily as an individual) so whether or not you are misrepresented it doesn't really impact on your life.

I think some men do.

But it is incredibly difficult to speak up against the weight of a crowd when you know you may be labelled a killjoy, "gay" or just lame (notice how homophobic and disablist insutls are now normal part of insult lexicon). Agree that most peopel are followers not leadres and the need to be acecpted in a group is v. strong - everyone who has been through our school system must have had the experience of being made the outsider or a close shave of nearly being so if they hadn't quickly stepped bakc into line. That feeling of dread of being pushed outside the group, is very strong. If you are in a position of privilege, why should you risk being labelled the outsider about something that doesn't actually bother you personally?

I think masculinity is such a fragile construct, that it has to be clung on to tenaciously and one of the way of doing that, is to band together and assert yourself as a group which is FOR one thing or against another (or both) and OMG what a fucking burden that must be. (Not being sarky, it seriously msut be. I suspect that's why many men do not become reasonable human beings until they are in their 30's, comfortable in their own skin and no logner desperate to prove their masculinity.)

Same is true of women btw - lots of them are not really comfortable in their skin until they're in their 30's or 40s.

I mean, wtf is wrong with our society, that we make it so bloody uncomfortable and scary for everyone for a large part of what should be a carefree youth?

And and ... also for women, that group thing is true as well I think - the need to be part of the crowd is strong in everyone, not just men. One of the reasons most women don't identify with feminism, is because they don't want to be seen by other women as killjoy militant outsiders.

I think it is the following the crowd/peer thing.

I reckon there is also an element of conditioning though. My DH is a good 'un - he agrees with my views on porn, prostitution, etc.

However he will still watch an advert on the TV and then say to me 'good ad!' when he has just watched something which is objectifying for women. I usually responds with 'DH, it's just a woman taking her clothes off again - it is not a good advert it is an unoriginal piece of crap'.

To which he will say 'gosh yes, taken in again'.

I don't think he is bumbling and stupid and ruled by his penis but he is obviously a bit conditioned. I'm conditioned too - we all are, however as pointed out upthread, I have more to lose than DH.

I posted this on the porny suit adverts thread but it makes for a refreshing read so here it is again.

I think that an awful lot of men don't like this stuff, are uncomfortable with it, or ambivalent.

Many of them do opt out of participating / spending money on the things you mention in your OP.

However the difference is that they aren't bothered if other men do these things - as it's no skin off their nose. If a man decides that he's not interested in this stuff, it's all pathetic/seedy, whatever, he's deciding that because he personally doesn't like it. It's often not a joined-up political feminist objection IYSWIM. So bloke thinks, no thanks, but it wouldn't cross his mind to try to stop anyone else from doing it. Because he is not (directly) harmed by other doing it. Women object en masse and talk about it and try to persuade others because they are directly harmed.

Just thinking out loud there don't know what you all make of that.